<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I meant that I cannot attend the meeting in person. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't know what Thato means by " <b style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Looking forward to your thoughts, Maryam wants to submit a request on our behalf by Friday and of course it will be subject to the entire NCSG EC approval." </b><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> Maryam is asking whether you want to 1. have a Finance Committee Session, during AGM 2. If so, what is the agenda. Why should this be submitted to NCSG EC for approval? Does the charter say NCSG EC has to approve FC meetings' agenda? </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As to the agenda, is this the agenda of Finance Committee F2F meeting or is this the plan of FC activities in ICANN 63? Because Maryam really needs the agenda of the Finance Committee face to face meeting in order to book it, 90 minute or 60 minutes? what are you gonna discuss, who are you gonna invite, etc<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As other points, why does FC have to present in NCSG outreach meetings? NCSG outreach is about telling newcomers/fellows/attendees what we do policy-wise and what our mission is and encourage them to join. what the FC does is least of their worries, we can just tell them Finance Committee is in charge of finances at NCSG! They are not really donors to be able to get money from them.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If you mean presenting the work during NCSG open session which will happen in AGMs, ok. but perhaps a shorter period (10-15 mins) in NCSG open meeting for presentation would suffice since FC wants to ask for a slot to meet f2f. (as I said I don't think FC needs to meet face to face if the FC members are not going to be already there, in the past some FC members were councilors and had funding to go and/or chairs of the constituencies so they could attend in person. no one got funding to go to ICANN meetings for FC activities ever.)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I totally disagree with what Thato is saying below:<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">'- Attending an ICANN meeting (any meeting to be clear), will help the FC keep up with discussions around ICANN Budgets, Reserve funds and other funds kept by ICANN, these will ease the communication with ICANN finance and other potential external funders for fundraising purposes and ensuring C's and the SG receive fair and equivalent.<span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">" </span></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If you need meetings with ICANN staff they will be more than happy to arrange it with you online through adobe, they have done it before with the previous FC. If FC wants to look at what ICANN allocates regarding funds it can check their annual budget and other documents. </span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Attending policy and outreach meeting to discuss finance matters won't be possible, they are short meetings about policy and outreach. </span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Fundraising at ICANN meetings? FC does not have a fund raising plan. It is one of its first responsibilities to come up with one. And in any fundraising plan that is out there for NCSG, I will tell you that ICANN meetings are not the hotspot to raise funds. There are many issues associated with fundraising activities that have to be discussed before we say we will do fundraising at ICANN meetings. </span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As to the below: </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">It is not helpful for members to take FC issues to the public mailing list although anyone can see mail threads of the FC, can we please avoid opposing each other because we all have different views and as leaders we need to<span> </span><u>avoid falling on to the trap of insubordination</u><span> </span>because it will always pose problems to the proper functioning of the FC, it seems like this also needs to be repeated, as it seems like the FC is in competition with itself.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thato, I want consensus to happen. I want us to come to a conclusion. But I don't think operating procedure draft was done in a manner that could achieve that. First of all, Remmy's second draft as a penholder had kept most of "the original language" he had put in there, despite having had been flagged by me, commented on and argued about.He did not resolve all the comments. Penholder has to respond and resolve all the comments but if not possible, then the penholder has to keep the comments of the flagged parts and not just resolve and keep the original language. The flagged parts and the comments should have been shared with the members for two reasons: I do not have to repeat myself and then forget some part 2. for people to see that we had disagreements and had conversations about them and see what their opinion is. There is nothing to hide about that. </div><div><br></div><div>I had to go through the document and again say why I did not agree with some parts. And am I mistaken that you decided to share the document without asking us on a Sunday deciding yourself to give them 3 weeks to review while we really didn't have agreement on that either? </div><div><br></div><div>So we need to do the process right. These are lessons to be learned: 1. The second draft should not resolve or delete comments that have not had been agreed on.</div><div><br></div><div>I see no problem with sharing drafts of the penholder with the members from the very beginning even. The finance committee does not have many members. We need others points of views and knowledge. </div><div><br></div><div>Traps of insubordination? Are you saying I disobeyed FC orders? If you did not mean that, then I don't know what you mean. If you mean I should not have done something FC told me not to do, I am sorry but we work with consensus. When there is no consensus I try to find consensus, if I cannot find consensus then I surely record my objection publicly. Especially with a 3 people committee. You can do the same. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thato said<br></div><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">The charter has provisions on how decision can be made within the FC if members cannot reach consensus but we do not want to go to that route because we want an environment conducive to collaboration and harmony, but if needs it be, we will have to visit the charter to obtain direction and guide incase of contention of ideas or perspectives, no one person or individual FC member has authority to dictate or intentionally circumvent activities or decisions of the FC but it is the entire FC itself that collectively makes decisions. Furthermore, as the Chair of the FC, I do not take sides but I support that which I think is best for the FC irrespective of who proposes an idea.<br>Farzaneh, with all due respect, I think it was wrong to share the document the way you did, knowing very well that the FC did not agree or discuss the release of the working draft, irrespective of your reasons, we need to work together. Our focus is to build a functional FC for NCSG as opposed to preempting the FC goals and plans, lets give it a fair opportunity to participate in NCSG activities , thanks.</blockquote> <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I explained my reasons why I shared it. There are so many things that are wrong with this process drafting the procedure. I have not in one single committee at NCSG seen so much resistance to share documents that are in draft with the members. I frankly don't think FC can make a decision on not sharing documents and not being open. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We need to make some ground rules for how to come up with documents, this FC does not really follow the usual practice. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">1. Penholder drafts, FC comments, modifies</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">2. Penholder resolves comments, accept modifications and when does not accept the modification, does not resolve them in the second draft, lets the conversation to be there for members. penholder can bring the issues to the FC lists to discuss and see if it can be resolved</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">3. Penholder does not keep the original language that has been objected to without any remarks. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">4. Members should be able to send communications to the FC mailing list any time they want, the moderator cannot stop that unless for justified reasons and the document should be shared with them from the beginning. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">5. Members should be given ample time at least 3 to 4 weeks to comment on the operating procedures </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="m_2358312569238233238m_3108451810699215216m_6560168898115688339gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 6:17 PM Remmy Nweke <<a href="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" target="_blank">remmyn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">Hi Farzaneh </div></div><div dir="auto">Please can you explain what you mean by "<span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Because I cannot."</span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Thanks</span></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:00 PM farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">can everyone already go to this meeting (do you have funding?)? Because I cannot.</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="m_2358312569238233238m_3108451810699215216m_6560168898115688339m_-3685031674221899826m_7826380878270484204gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 2:58 PM Remmy Nweke <<a href="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" target="_blank">remmyn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Thanks Mr Chairman,<div dir="auto">Outline well noted and is ok by me. It will offer FC opportunity to deal with community perspectives as they arise and create more better understanding of FC going forward.</div><div dir="auto">Regards</div><div dir="auto">Remmy</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 7:34 pm Thato Mfikwe, <<a href="mailto:thatomfikwe@gmail.com" target="_blank">thatomfikwe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>I just wanted to check with everyone if the following would suffice for ICANN 63 please note I am not ignoring Farzaneh's comment:</div><div><br></div><div>- Participation in NCSG outreach activities or inreach efforts: the role of FC would be to present and introduce the FC and outlines some of the current and planned FC activities. This will require that the FC sits on a panel of a relevant workshop or meeting (Information sharing and creating awareness)</div><div><br></div><div>- Development of an agenda centered around resolving the FC OP and its synergies with the NCSG Charter, the role if FC is to lead this meeting with the NCSG membership in attendance as this will also enable members to understand the role of the FC and how to support.This meeting could also look at other things but the OP and the Charter remain critical to effective operation of the FC when 2019 commences. <u>This was recorded in minutes of our last meeting.</u><br></div><div><br></div><div>- Attending an ICANN meeting (any meeting to be clear), will help the FC keep up with discussions around ICANN Budgets, Reserve funds and other funds kept by ICANN, these will ease the communication with ICANN finance and other potential external funders for fundraising purposes and ensuring C's and the SG receive fair and equivalent.</div><div><br></div><div><b>Looking forward to your thoughts, Maryam wants to submit a request on our behalf by Friday and of course it will be subject to the entire NCSG EC approval. </b><br></div><div><br></div><div>It is not helpful for members to take FC issues to the public mailing list although anyone can see mail threads of the FC, can we please avoid opposing each other because we all have different views and as leaders we need to <u>avoid falling on to the trap of insubordination</u> because it will always pose problems to the proper functioning of the FC, it seems like this also needs to be repeated, as it seems like the FC is in competition with itself.</div><div><br></div><div>The charter has provisions on how decision can be made within the FC if members cannot reach consensus but we do not want to go to that route because we want an environment conducive to collaboration and harmony, but if needs it be, we will have to visit the charter to obtain direction and guide incase of contention of ideas or perspectives, no one person or individual FC member has authority to dictate or intentionally circumvent activities or decisions of the FC but it is the entire FC itself that collectively makes decisions. Furthermore, as the Chair of the FC, I do not take sides but I support that which I think is best for the FC irrespective of who proposes an idea.</div><div><br></div><div>Farzaneh, with all due respect, I think it was wrong to share the document the way you did, knowing very well that the FC did not agree or discuss the release of the working draft, irrespective of your reasons, we need to work together. Our focus is to build a functional FC for NCSG as opposed to preempting the FC goals and plans, lets give it a fair opportunity to participate in NCSG activities , thanks.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thato Mfikwe.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 4:25 PM, farzaneh badii <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">Thato </div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If FC members wont be going to the meeting already, there is no reason to have an f2f finance meeting. Only if you can already go </div><div class="m_2358312569238233238m_3108451810699215216m_6560168898115688339m_-3685031674221899826m_7826380878270484204m_6266121148494038960m_-982337385004865056HOEnZb"><div class="m_2358312569238233238m_3108451810699215216m_6560168898115688339m_-3685031674221899826m_7826380878270484204m_6266121148494038960m_-982337385004865056h5"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:55 AM Thato Mfikwe <<a href="mailto:thatomfikwe@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">thatomfikwe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Maryam,</div><div><br></div><div>Let me first discuss this with the FC and get back to you, what is the timeframe for this submission? I had a stand alone meeting in mind but let me check with members how viable this would be, thanks.<br></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Thato Mfikwe.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Maryam Bakoshi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:maryam.bakoshi@icann.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">maryam.bakoshi@icann.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">Dear Thato, all,
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">Based on the discussions on the mailing list, please could you confirm that you want a stand alone FC face to face meeting scheduled in the ICANN63 Barcelona meeting. If so, how long would you
want the meeting for, so I can plan to add it to the NCSG meeting requests. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">Many thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">Maryam Bakoshi</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060"> | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">ICANN</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060"> | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">S</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | <b>T</b>: +44 7846 471777<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="m_2358312569238233238m_3108451810699215216m_6560168898115688339m_-3685031674221899826gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Remmy Nweke, Esq
lead strategist/group executive editor,
DigitalSENSE Africa Media Ltd, publishers of:
[DigitalSENSE Business News | ITRealms | NaijaAgroNet]
Block F1, Shop 133 Moyosore Aboderin Plaza
Bolade Junction, Oshodi, Lagos-Nigeria
234-8023122558, 8051000475, 08033592762, 08172004283
<a href="mailto:Remmyn@gmail.com" target="_blank">Remmyn@gmail.com</a></div>
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