<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Tapani,</div><div><br></div><div>I'd go with solving the spam filter issue ASAP - quite a lot of important messages are being filtered (for me, especially those from Farzi, Tomslin and Rafik, which is a real problem) and this may generate a bigger problem in the near future :\</div><div><br></div><div>Cordially,</div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><b>Pedro de Perdigão Lana</b><br></font></font></span><div><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><a href="https://www.nic.br/" target="_blank">Lawyer</a>, </font></font></span><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><a href="https://www.gedai.com.br/" target="_blank">GEDAI/UFPR</a> Researcher</font></font></span></font></font></span></font></font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2">PhD Candidate (UFPR), LLM in Business Law (UCoimbra)</font></font></span><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"> </font></font></span></font></font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"></span></font></font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2">Coordination/Board/EC @</font></font></span><span style="font-family:times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"> </font></font></span><span style="font-family:garamond,"times new roman",serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><a href="https://www.isoc.org.br/" target="_blank">ISOC Brazil</a>,</span><span style="font-family:garamond,"times new roman",serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="1"><font size="2"> </font></font><font size="2"><a href="https://www.ncuc.org/" target="_blank">NCUC</a> & <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Home" target="_blank">NCSG </a>(ICANN) and </font></span><span style="font-family:garamond,"times new roman",serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="1"><font size="2"><a href="https://br.creativecommons.net/" target="_blank">CC Brazil</a></font></font></span><span style="font-family:garamond,"times new roman",serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">.</span><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"><font size="1"><font size="2"><br></font></font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif"></span></div><div><font size="1"><span style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif">This message is restricted to the sender and recipient(s). If received by mistake, please reply informing it.</span></font></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sex., 11 de jul. de 2025 às 04:35, Tapani Tarvainen via NCSG-EC <<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is">ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear all,<br>
<br>
As you may recall we talked briefly about NCSG's mailing list problems<br>
in Prague. There are two distinct issues we should address:<br>
<br>
First, NCSG-DISCUSS messages tend to be eaten by spam filters,<br>
especially by Google.<br>
<br>
Second, having NCSG's mailing lists hosted on a volunteer basis<br>
is not ideal in the long term, as there's no guarantee of<br>
continuity.<br>
<br>
The first is more urgent. The problem there is that Google<br>
(and some others) have tightened their spam filters in a way<br>
that's somewhat difficult for mailing lists to handle.<br>
<br>
For the technically inclined, Google wants incoming mail<br>
to have either SPF or DKIM set up. For some reason, Syracuse<br>
university (where ncsg-discuss is hosted) has not set up<br>
DKIM at all and their SPF setting seems to be broken.<br>
<br>
I have not contacted Syracuse support yet. I am a bit wary<br>
of doing so given that we have contract or indeed any relation<br>
with them, so they might just tell us to move our list away.<br>
At least I'd like to have a backup plan ready if that happens.<br>
<br>
Indeed given what I've seen at some other universities I fear<br>
Syracuse may run the service down at some point. So a backup<br>
plan would be good in any case.<br>
<br>
Anyway, I can see three options here:<br>
<br>
(1) Wait and hope Syracuse will at least fix their SPF setup.<br>
This is reasonably likely to happen sooner or later, but<br>
it's not guaranteed and may take some time. Also Google &co<br>
may start insisting on both SPF and DKIM some day.<br>
<br>
(2) Contact Syracuse support. That might get them to fix their<br>
SPF sooner or maybe even set up DKIM. Or it might not.<br>
<br>
(3) Move ncsg-discuss somewhere else. The obvious choice would be<br>
<a href="http://lists.ncsg.is" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.ncsg.is</a>, which is hosted by Electronic Frontier Finland<br>
(Effi) and where all other ncsg lists are. In the long term,<br>
however, it would be better to have ncsg lists somewhere under<br>
ncsg's own control.<br>
<br>
If we go for (3), we could either first move ncsg-discuss to Effi and<br>
later all ncsg lists when we find a good long-term solution, or leave<br>
it where it is until we have the long-term solution decided.<br>
<br>
On the face of it the latter would seem to be less work, but the<br>
difference may not be all that big: moving all lists from one place to<br>
another will be just about as hard whether there's one list more or<br>
less, the extra work caused by different software at Syracuse will be<br>
similar in either case. And the spam filter problems at Syracuse will<br>
probably persist while we're looking for the long-term solution, and<br>
that may take surprisingly long time.<br>
<br>
One point to consider: moving ncsg-discuss away from Syracuse will<br>
change the list's address and our members will have to learn to use<br>
the new one. It should be possible, however, to set up temporary<br>
forwarder from the old list to mitigate this. Moving the lists<br>
away from Effi would not have this issue because (presumably)<br>
we'd move the address <a href="http://lists.ncsg.is" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.ncsg.is</a> as well.<br>
<br>
Some considerations when looking for new mailing list hosting:<br>
<br>
* We need to keep old archives.<br>
<br>
* We would like to have a reasonably easy way to remove messages<br>
or parts of them (like attachments) from archives if need be.<br>
<br>
* We would like to keep our own domain (<a href="http://lists.ncsg.is" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.ncsg.is</a>) in the<br>
list addresses.<br>
<br>
* It would be nice to have a solution that synchronizes<br>
(semi)automatically with our member database, whatever that<br>
will be in the future.<br>
<br>
* It would be ideal to have a solution for both member database<br>
and mailing lists as one package. (CiviCRM theoretically could.<br>
In practice... well.)<br>
<br>
* We want to have a solution that is sustainable and doesn't<br>
depend too much on volunteers and avoids key person dependency<br>
problems.<br>
<br>
* We want a solution that generally works well. That is, spam<br>
protection and the like are (and are kept) up to data, good list<br>
management interface &c.<br>
<br>
* We want something reasonably cheap. Like, something we can get<br>
ICANN to pay for.<br>
<br>
I've probably missed something but I trust you all feel free<br>
to add things that come to your mind.<br>
<br>
Finding a good solution may not be easy and implementation may also<br>
take a fairly long time, especially if we try to move the member<br>
database at the same time.<br>
<br>
So, question: Do we want to fix the spam filter issue ASAP or leave it<br>
until we have a comprehensive long-term solution?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Tapani Tarvainen<br>
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</blockquote></div>