<div dir="ltr">Fine with your assessment re his complaint, but he has continued to @ Georgia Tech on Twitter as recently as this morning. <div><br></div><div>We can still wait until the elections are over to take a decision; there is no practical difference between being suspended from the list or being under post moderation, to the extent that his posts do not reach the list without our consent, and we can consent to nothing. </div><div><br></div><div>That still means his vote gets to be counted though. </div><div><br></div><div>At this point I can go one way or another, depending on what others think.</div><div><br></div><div>Have a nice day,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:43 AM Stephanie E Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal
complaints, which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that
this is, I reached out to Milton. He is not prepared to apologize
to Mr Aggarwal on the list. i am about to inform Mr. A of this
fact, and that I have reviewed the messages in question and not
only do not think he has a valid complaint, but concur with the EC
that his behaviour on the list violates our acceptable standards.
Do you agree with this assessment?</p>
<p>I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over.
in the meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning
in private was issued continues to be outside the boundaries of
acceptable behaviour, please point me to the evidence and I will
inform him that the NCSG-EC has removed him from the list. Period
of removal should be temporary in my view, pending removal of
membership if indeed he does not qualify on grounds of his
commercial activities.</p>
<p>SP<br>
</p>
<div>On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael
Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi all
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's
sleep...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First about the guy:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue
on the same track. He posted on the list *and* on social media
*after* the warning, and probably realizing he had been
moderated from the NCSG list, took to the NCUC list.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is also now an "official" request by James to look
into his membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and
Bruna (putting me in cc, hence I inform you here))</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to
warrant his immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton
notwithstanding. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and
failing to moderate (technically speaking) quickly enough, but
he's the one to blame for disregarding pretty much every point
from our warning and actively circumventing it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be
willing to go would be to send a reminder to Milton,
encouraging him to exercise utmost caution in his choice of
words when faced with disruptive behavior on list, in the
multicultural context that is ours. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from
the NCUC mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts
on the main issue. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have a nice day, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM
Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as
I'm concerned. I might've been even less polite, had I seen
this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Raoul</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at
03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">He has sent me such a direct complaint. No
specifics of course. I guess i have to respond. He is
demanding I make Milton apologize on the list. Advice
welcome.
<div>Steph<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29,
Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <<a href="mailto:rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com" target="_blank">rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">I got the confirmation from Rafik
that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll start another thread to deal with the
technical side of that...<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>But for the main issue, I suggest we leave
it at that and filter everything until the
election is over, and take a second look by
then. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a
complaint against Milton. I guess we should
still reply to that - something like if you
want to file a complaint, you have to do it in
writing to the Chair?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in
place and maybe a few more reminders if more
people try to keep the discussion rolling, we
can put that behind us and move on with our
lives... </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 2,
2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC
<<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Looks fine to me. Thanks for doing this
Raphael!</p>
<p>SP<br>
</p>
<div>On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael
Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This was not my initial
interpretation of his message either,
but I can see how and why you can
interpret it that way Steph. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But I'm not sure that the point you
are raising should be addressed in the
context of the EC. It has
ramifications into both your history
as a NCSG chair, and the "issues" with
our rigid gender rules that now put
you in a situation where you are
(almost) elected by default. The
interpretation you put forward is
legitimate in your circumstances, but
it has to be inferred, from a rather
complex situation and long-standing
situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav
though is rather straightforward and
can be addressed right away.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is what I plan to send him
later today, with your agreement:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Vaibhav,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We are writing to you regarding the
post you made on the NCSG mailing list
at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election
Clarifications" thread.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>After reviewing the content of your
post, we find it to be in violation of
both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN
Expected Standards of Behavior.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter
reads as follows:</div>
<div>"Behavioral expectations of all
NCSG members, include without
limitation: adhering to ICANN
Bylaws/Policies; supporting the
bottom-up consensus model; treating
others with dignity, respect, and
courtesy; listening attentively and
seeking to understand others; acting
with honesty, sincerity, and
integrity."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your recent interventions on the
mailing list were generally borderline
regarding these Charter committments,
and the one we referred to above
constitutes a direct violation. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We would kindly ask you to
reconsider how you understand your
involvement with NCSG and withdraw the
personal attacks, accusations and
threats you made in that post. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any further post on the NCSG
mailing list which would be found in
violation of the NCSG Charter could
lead to your suspension from the
mailing list and a further review of
your membership status by the NCSG
Executive Committee.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We thank you in advance for your
cooperation on this matter.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix, on
behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin
Gross via NCSG-EC <<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>I didn’t interpret Milton’s
message as being hurtful but more of
what we face every election - people
imaging ways of using the existing
ballot and rules to achieve various
results. It isn’t the first time
we’ve had abstain / NOTA
conversations and probably won’t be
the last.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Robin<br>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jun 2, 2020, at
10:04 AM, Stephanie E
Perrin via NCSG-EC <<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<p>I just responded to
James' comment, in
hopes that this would
douse the flames. I
also resent the thread
of reminders about the
election process....I
trust it made it to
the list.</p>
<p>I agree that whoever
this Agarwal guy is,
an offlist note is
required. I would
really appreciate it
if you did it, because
frankly it looks like
I am retaliating and
might serve to
escalate matters.</p>
<p>I also think Milton
is out of line. I am
well aware of how much
he would like me not
to run, but to suggest
to the list that they
send me a message
about how unwelcome I
am, by voting
abstain....well,
besides being hurtful,
I think it is a kind
of electioneering that
ought to be
discouraged.
Encourage people to
vote for your
candidate of choice,
sure.</p>
<p>I also think that
encouraging me to step
down so the EC can
appoint the person
they really want
raises all kinds of
questions about how
fair the election
process is.</p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
<p>SP<br>
</p>
<div>On 2020-06-02 12:57
p.m., Raphael
Beauregard-Lacroix via
NCSG-EC wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi all<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What he said to
Milton is
disrespectful, and
contains specific
accusations as
well as threats. I
think he needs to
be reminded
off-list of the
expected standards
of behavior at
ICANN and
encouraged to
withdraw what he
said and
eventually
apologize. If he
keeps lashing on,
then to me thats a
case of temporary
suspension from
the mailing list
with further
review on our
side. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Milton is
harsh, and I also
think he should
exercise restraint
in such
circumstances, and
it would be fair
game to remind
him. His point
could be made
without certain
words,
irrespective of
their being "true"
or not. But
Vaibhav's surely
went way over the
line as far as
standards of
behavior are
concerned, much
more than Milton
ever did. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know you
don't like to play
the cop Steph, but
I do think it's
required,
unfortunately. If
you don't feel
like it, I can
volunteer, or
someone else can
go ahead too.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But let's
quickly discuss
first; let me know
what you all
think.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have a nice
day, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
<a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" target="_blank">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NCSG-EC mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" target="_blank">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NCSG-EC mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
<a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" target="_blank">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NCSG-EC mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NCSG-EC mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank">NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div>