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<p>Dear Milton</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>All points taken... but the fact remains that the member-driven
governance model in its current form failed to protect AfriNIC
when it encountered a series crises. When the host country
government and courts became involved that did not help, it made
the situation worse. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Stable and secure governance is surely the goal. And surely
governments can be members and part of a governance framework, as
is the case with ICANN? In other words, I think we are correct in
asking for more information about this as outlined in the NCSG
letter, and Alice and you and others are correct in defending
member-based governance, but I also think we should be open to
evolving our mutlistakeholder governance models so that they are
better able to withstand crises -- whether these emerge from
inside or outside the institutions (or both as was the case with
AfriNIC).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Anriette</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>PS - Milton's point about trying to get the numbers back reminded
me of the SouthAfrica.com saga which some of you might remember. A
lost cause that wasted much time and money.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Anriette Esterhuysen - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org//anriette@gmail.com">anriette@apc.org//anriette@gmail.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2025/11/16 18:19, Mueller, Milton L
wrote:<br>
</div>
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Anriette,</div>
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Thanks for your comments. I think your question about the
relationship between the African Union and Smart Africa (SA) is
an important one to pursue. It is relevant if SA succeeds in
establishing some kind of Council (CAIGA) that has supervisory
authority over AFRINIC. I think that is a bad idea and I also
think it is highly unlikely. But as a partner of SA, ICANN needs
to confront this question.</div>
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As for "generalizations about the region and its governments,"
sorry if you read that into the article. No such generalizations
were intended. Your misinterpretation shows that nationalism and
identity politics are big obstacles to clear thinking about
Internet governance, especially in this case. There is no
statement anywhere in that blog, or in anything I have ever
written, that says Africa is "inherently" unstable or
undemocratic. Inherent means "existing in something as a
permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute." No, the
article merely calls attention to the fact that many of its
current governments are undemocratic or unstable, which is a
fact. Some African governments are not unstable or undemocratic,
and there is certainly long term hope that stability and liberal
democracy will come to additional African states. </div>
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The point is, all these governments would be part of a board
that wants to govern AFRINIC. So what kind of principles and
policies would ensue? Geopolitics and national interests are
"inherent" features of multilateral, government institutions.
That is my argument, and it applies to all regions, not just
Africa.</div>
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The article advocates for <b>self-governance</b> of AFRINIC by
its <b>members, </b>
and opposes an overlay of state-directed control. This is what
we mean by "the multistakeholder model," is it not? My rejection
of state control and digital sovereignty applies to the U.S.
government, to European governments, etc. Our current experience
with the Trump administration and its nationalistic, nativist,
sovereigntist policies is an excellent example of why I don't
want states setting policies for the global coordination of
Internet identifiers. It also explains why I was and remain a
big advocate of eliminating U.S. control of ICANN during the
2014-2016 transition. I think I have been perfectly consistent
about this. </div>
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<p
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<span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Dr.
Milton L Mueller</span></p>
<p
style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">
<span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Georgia
Institute of Technology</span></p>
<p
style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">
<span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Carter
School of Public Policy</span></p>
<p
style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">
<a
style="text-decoration: none; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
title="https://internetgovernance.org"
href="https://internetgovernance.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><img
height="71" width="287"
style="width: 287.595px; height: 71px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
id="x_x_x_image_0" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1"
src="cid:part1.0FlH4U68.hbp12XUg@apc.org" class=""></a></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
<div
style="direction: ltr; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<b>From:</b> Anriette Esterhuysen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"><anriette@apc.org></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 16, 2025 10:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mueller, Milton L <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:milton@GATECH.EDU"><milton@GATECH.EDU></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"><NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Is ICANN helping to subvert its own
governance model?</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"> </div>
</div>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Dear Milton</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">You are often the
person that asks tough questions in an uncompromising way. I
like and value that about you even when I don't agree with you
:) But speaking as an African I would appreciate it if you could
do so without making generalisations about the region and its
governments. Africa is not inherently 'unstable' or
undemocratic, as you imply. In fact, living in the US at
present you probably have firsthand knowledge of how erratic
states and their leaders can be and how risky it is to make
assumptions about them.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">From my
perspective as someone who has tried to follow the process
closely, but from a distance, I do have questions over and above
those in the NCSG letter, but they can wait for a bit later and
should be addressed to the AfriNIC board and to Smart Africa and
the African Union.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">For example, does
the MOU between Smart Africa and the African Union Commission
include commitment to comply with the
<a data-auth="NotApplicable"
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
class="OWAAutoLink"
id="OWA04994918-0c93-7919-f9c9-520b5736c8d0"
href="https://au.int/sites/default/files/documents/42078-doc-DATA-POLICY-FRAMEWORKS-2024-ENG-V2.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">
AU's Data Policy Framework</a>, and the <a
data-auth="NotApplicable"
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
class="OWAAutoLink"
id="OWA15e9226e-61ff-9051-3bc2-0111ec923c0f"
href="https://au.int/sites/default/files/newsevents/workingdocuments/33025-wd-african_declaration_on_internet_governance_en_0.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">
AU Declaration on Internet Governance </a> which affirms
freedom of expression, openness and the WSIS principles of
multistakeholder participation? And, will Smart Africa int is
interaction/support of AfriNIC adhere to the
<a data-auth="NotApplicable"
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
class="OWAAutoLink"
id="OWA340cc9bc-c2a3-968e-9f31-84092266467a"
href="cid:part2.Naj000J0.A4kgHMma@apc.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
African Commission on Human and People's Rights Declaration of
Principles on Freedom of Expression</a>. The latter is a
particularly strong document and shaped by multistakeholder
consultation and in particular civil society input. AfriNIC
has in the past been active in the formulation of AU
internet-related policies.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">I also have
questions on how Smart Africa, which is indeed doing good work
and filling a gap left by the lack of capacity at the African
Union Commission, plans to work with civil society and promote
and protect human rights in its digital governance work. While
Smart Africa does not exclude civil society, it does seem to
practice its multistakeholder approach primarily through working
with the private sector. AfriNIC also always needed to
strengthen its connections with civil society. I hope that new
board will help make that happen. </p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">These are not
questions for ICANN but I think they are questions relevant to
many NCSG members involved in internet governance in Africa (and
beyond). Emmanuel and others, if you do have some of the
answers to my questions, please share.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Thanks</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Anriette</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<pre><div>Anriette Esterhuysen - <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated OWAAutoLink moz-txt-link-freetext"
id="OWA3b68455d-fcb7-1333-c218-eefbcb0c2632"
href="mailto:anriette@apc.org//anriette@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">anriette@apc.org//anriette@gmail.com</a></div></pre>
<div>On 2025/11/14 17:50, Mueller, Milton L wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
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I support the letter 100%</div>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg">
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style="direction: ltr; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<b>From:</b> Rafik Dammak <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink"
id="OWA7659ea08-5de8-2202-6af9-b15a59e5b1c3"
href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<rafik.dammak@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 14, 2025 1:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NCSG <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink"
id="OWA238fa6c9-1df2-0361-2868-8e8ecefb4b4f"
href="mailto:ncsg-discuss@listserv.syr.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<ncsg-discuss@listserv.syr.edu></a>; ncsg-pc <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink"
id="OWA0deffd51-e49f-56c9-ea61-a356ff4a02b6"
href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is" moz-do-not-send="true">
<ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mueller, Milton L <a
class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink"
id="OWAd3219216-5920-5b87-ffd9-7b0633f05743"
href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">
<milton@gatech.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCSG-Discuss] Is ICANN helping to
subvert its own governance model?</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"> </div>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">hi all,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">thanks for the comments and input
to letter, here the new version after resolving the changes
<a data-auth="NotApplicable"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink moz-txt-link-freetext"
id="OWAbc680c7a-b419-92a7-6fb7-12ae9e4c66d4"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CPgRLILaCtsda8YRA4mUtElLXYS6udjF8cHvTo2AXHI/edit?tab=t.0"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CPgRLILaCtsda8YRA4mUtElLXYS6udjF8cHvTo2AXHI/edit?tab=t.0</a> .</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">If there is no strong objection or
concern, we can send this letter asap to the board for
consideration, hopefully by the end of the day.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Best,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Rafik</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Le jeu. 13 nov. 2025 à 23:08,
Mueller, Milton L <<a
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink moz-txt-link-freetext"
id="OWA3064c511-f86e-b99e-4978-53afb5f1c511"
href="mailto:00001d75540da649-dmarc-request@listserv.syr.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">00001d75540da649-dmarc-request@listserv.syr.edu</a>>
a écrit :</div>
<blockquote
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> I want to urge NCSG members that as we ask for more
information, we do so without undermining AfriNIC's new
board </div>
<div
style="direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> and the efforts of this board and those working with it
to stabilise AfriNIC. They need our support.</div>
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Absolutely correct. The focus should be on CAIGA proposal,
which deviates from multistakeholder principles, the new
Afrinic board has very little to do with that as far as I
know. </div>
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<p
style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">
<span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Dr.</span>
<span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
Milton L Mueller</span></p>
<p
style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">
<span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Georgia
Institute of Technology</span></p>
<p
style="direction: ltr; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">
<span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">School
of Public Policy</span></p>
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<a data-auth="NotApplicable"
style="text-decoration: none; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
title="https://internetgovernance.org"
class="OWAAutoLink"
id="OWAeaa6ed23-bdc7-f366-bf70-5a824322d8b9"
href="https://internetgovernance.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img size="6990" height="79"
width="320"
style="width: 320px; height: 79px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
id="x_x_m_-1162883159886474037image_0"
data-outlook-trace="F:2|T:2"
src="cid:part2.ZKoHoQwd.HcR8LvPV@apc.org" class=""></a></p>
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