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<p>I believe the small team ship has sailed. You are very welcome
to join any of these small teams. We are painfully aware of the
flaws in this process, and are working hard to keep policy making
at the formal GNSO level, but without sufficient players covering
each of this processes it is extremely difficult. Same goes with
the IRTs, not a new problem, we have been fighting back door
policy making for the now 11 years that I have been here.....</p>
<p>Please can we get a little more help with some of our members
joining policy procedures and small teams. Read the documents,
make suggestions to your hardworking team members who cannot keep
up with the workflow. Many hands make light work.</p>
<p>Stephanie Perrin</p>
<p>currently trying to cover Council as a councillor, 3 small teams
and following a fourth and fifth. Watching, but unable to join
the meetings due to conflicts, two IRTS. <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-11-05 10:05 p.m., farzaneh
badii wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN1qJvDgQOR_jk65UzviWb1MYj_CVupwCwrX97SQzUwKGrv+HQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">No it isn’t Kathy. I am talking about the concept
of small team plus! It was also it was also misrepresented to
the GAC and it opens a can of worms. But that ship has sailed
which is very unfortunate since I raised and the NCSG council
members agreed in DC that small groups can be abused. The fun
part of this is that people who came up with this idea frame it
as “oh you wanted transparency so we made the small team
bigger!”. Unfortunate really but I can’t do anything about it
and I am not convinced by your explanation, but I just see that
we keep backing off from the things we discuss and want! </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 9:57
PM Kathy Kleiman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kathy@dnrc.tech"><kathy@dnrc.tech></a> wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div>
<p>Hi Farzi, <br>
</p>
<p>What Anne and Tomslin, Stephanie and others have been
working on is a revision to SubPro Working Group
Recommendation 17.2 that the Board will accept. As we
discussed in the Issues Forum, SubPro WG Recommendation
17.2 called for a fuller range of support for those New
gTLD Applicants qualifying for Applicant Support,
including technical, legal and business support. The
ICANN Board (read: ICANN Legal) had fiduciary concerns
(e.g., paying directly for someone else's lawyer) and
the "what if" far more Applicants need Support than
ICANN budgeted for. <br>
</p>
<p>But 17.2 is a critical policy recommendation, duly
created by a PDP WG and adopted by the Council. Tomslin,
Stephanie, and some in ALAC (as we shared very openly at
the Issues Forum) have been worked to clarify, define
and show (a) how very, very important these extra
services, counseling and support will be for legal,
business and technical issues, and (b) how by careful
planning and using strategies we all now well (like
Incubators and Non-Profits), service providers/experts
can scale a class, say on "creating a sustainable
business plan for a gTLD" from 10 to 100
people/organizations (beauty of a Zoom room).</p>
<p>It's not new policy; it's modification to preserve a
recommendation that impacts those groups most in need of
support. Since we cannot reconstitute the SubPro Working
Group (finished in 2020), it is up to the Council to
make these, yes, policy tweaks. This Council SubPro
Small Team, in turn, makes the policy recommendation
revision text - and yes, the full Council should review
and approve it (or dismiss it). <br>
</p>
<p>While I share your concerns overall about the power of
Council Small Teams, I think the use here is within
bounds and works to do something appropriate that has no
other avenue. Best, Kathy<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>On 10/24/2023 5:25 AM, farzaneh badii wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Dear NCSG and Councillors</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We cannot allow this small team plus go
ahead. It is becoming a policy development group of
its own. Councillors, please follow up on this. </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">----------
Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">DiBiase,
Gregory via council</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">council@gnso.icann.org</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:19 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [council] [GNSO-SubProPendingRecs-ST]
Point of Order - Sub Pro Pending Recommendations
Small Team Work<br>
To: Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:paul@elstermcgrady.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">paul@elstermcgrady.com</a>>,
Tomslin Samme-Nlar <<a href="mailto:mesumbeslin@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mesumbeslin@gmail.com</a>>,
Anne ICANN <<a href="mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">anneicanngnso@gmail.com</a>>,
<a href="mailto:COUNCIL@GNSO.ICANN.ORG" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">COUNCIL@GNSO.ICANN.ORG</a>
<<a href="mailto:COUNCIL@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">COUNCIL@gnso.icann.org</a>><br>
CC: <a href="mailto:gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org</a>
<<a href="mailto:gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org</a>>,
Terri Agnew via cou. <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand the concern
about stating definitively that Applicant
Support would constitute mere "Implementation
Guidance" rather than actual policy. But I’m
not sure that’s the case. My understanding
was that outputs from the Small Team Plus that
are sent to Council for consideration would
likely consist of both a Supplemental
Recommendation and Implementation Guidance. Is
that accurate Paul?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anne and Tomslin- do you
have any concerns with telling the Board that
both a Supplemental Recommendation and
Implementation Guidance is something the small
team is considering and ultimately will bring
to the broader council for their approval?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
GNSO-SubProPendingRecs-ST <<a href="mailto:gnso-subpropendingrecs-st-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-subpropendingrecs-st-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul McGrady<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 24, 2023
1:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tomslin Samme-Nlar <<a href="mailto:mesumbeslin@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mesumbeslin@gmail.com</a>>;
Anne ICANN <<a href="mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">anneicanngnso@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org</a>;
Terri Agnew via cou. <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL]
[GNSO-SubProPendingRecs-ST] [council]
Point of Order - Sub Pro Pending
Recommendations Small Team Work</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Anne and Tomslin,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you both for this.
If the goal is to <b><u>only</u></b> make a
Supplemental Recommendation, that relegates
us to <b><u>only</u></b> a Policy position
and <b><u>no position on implementation</u></b>.
This is inconsistent with how the GNSO has
been acting for many years. Saying that we
will have (1) a policy Supplemental
Recommendation <b><u>AND</u></b> (2)
implementation guidance is nothing radical
at all. Based on Anne’s email, I think we
should take a few minutes to level set in
our next call so that everyone can be
reminded about the difference between policy
recommendations and implementation
guidance. But I don’t think we need to take
some decision before speaking with the Board
on whether or not Council has the ability to
issue both policy Supplemental
Recommendations <b><u>and</u></b>
Implementation Guidance. The Council
clearly does.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> council
<<a href="mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">council-bounces@gnso.icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tomslin Samme-Nlar
via council<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 23, 2023
8:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Anne ICANN <<a href="mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">anneicanngnso@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-subpropendingrecs-st@icann.org</a>;
Terri Agnew via cou. <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [council]
[GNSO-SubProPendingRecs-ST] Point of
Order - Sub Pro Pending Recommendations
Small Team Work</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you, Anne for
pointing this out. I too do not recall
any agreement as to the approach to
tackle the Applicant Support ideas,
other than that the 'idea' was floated
on Sunday as an option.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think there is
also agreement that all
proposals/recommendations from the
Small Team must be approved by the
council before they become official
council positions. In fact, during our
meeting on Sunday, it was stressed
that this be strictly adhered to,
especially now that non-council
members are being invites to form
'Small Team Plus".</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">I therefore
support Anne's request that we avoid
socialising this idea of using
implementation guidance and truncating
Recommendation 17.2 as the way forward
to address Board's concerns on
Applicant support until the council
approves it.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Warmly, <br>
Tomslin</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, 23 Oct
2023, 22:43 Anne ICANN, <<a href="mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">anneicanngnso@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Sub Pro
Small Team,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Today I heard
our Sub Pro Small Team fearless
leader Paul announce to the GAC
that the ideas around Applicant
Support that will be developed
by the "Small Team Plus" will
constitute "Implementation
Guidance" for the Board. Of
course in Sub Pro "speak",
Implementation Guidance is a
term of art that means the ideas
will not constitute a policy
recommendation as contemplated
by Annex A, Section 9 which
speaks of Supplemental
Recommendations which are policy
recommendations. I commented on
this in our Small Team meeting
on Saturday. (For clarity,
"implementation Guidance" is a
defined term in the Sub Pro
Final Report and it is not
obligatory if the Board finds
that it is impractical.)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Although Paul
began to speak about
Implementation Guidance in the
small team meeting on Saturday,
I don't recall a consensus being
developed on this approach.
Perhaps more importantly, it
strikes me that the decision as
to whether the ideas to be put
forward in the Supplemental
Recommendation for Applicant
Support will constitute
Implementation Guidance (and not
policy per se) is actually a
question for Council and not for
the Small Team alone to decide
as this is in fact a policy
matter. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps Paul
(and staff?) are thinking this
is the only workable approach
because of the many ideas that
have been put forward. The
thought may be that no one idea
(or merging of ideas into one
consensus Supplemental
Recommendation) will be
feasible. Or that this process
would take too long, if
achievable at all? These are
all very real concerns.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, I do
need to raise this Point of
Order before the meeting with
the Board where the Board
Statement on Sub Pro
Non-Adoption will be reviewed.
I believe that in respecting the
boundaries of Small Team work,
we would need authorization from
Council to state to the Board
that suggestions for providing
expanded assistance in the realm
of Applicant Support would
constitute mere "Implementation
Guidance" rather than actual
policy Recommendations which are
Supplemental in nature pursuant
to Annex A, Section 9.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Of course it
would be easier for the Board to
accept a truncated
Recommendation 17.2 which is not
specific other than to say
"expand Applicant Support".
Then we could tack on various
Implementation Guidance ideas
which do not actually bind the
Board. However, again I believe
that if that is to be the
approach taken by the Small
Team, it should be approved in
advance by Council.)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As incoming
Chair, Greg has already
indicated in his presentation to
Council his concern in relation
to transparency of Council small
team work. So let's be very
careful about this one as we are
due to go before the Board to
discuss the non-adopted items in
the pending Sub Pro Final Report
Recommendations. Could we
please discuss this further in
our Closed Session? I do not
think the same statement made
today to the GAC should be
repeated before the Board
without authorization from
Council.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anne</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anne
Aikman-Scalese</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">GNSO
Councilor </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">NomCom
Non-Voting 2022-2024</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">anneicanngnso@gmail.com</a></p>
</div>
</div>
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<pre cols="72" style="font-family:monospace">--
Kathy Kleiman
President, Domain Name Rights Coalition
</pre>
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