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    <p>I agree with you and Kathy, but framing the language will be very
      difficult, given the controversies rampant at the moment about
      curtailing hate speech....something I worry about a lot more than
      the geographical issues, although I agree that the Amazonians
      ought to be able to hang on to their name.  Not sure about the
      .spa fight, if you recall, the Belgian small town that wanted that
      name.  It's a tough issue, who decides which names are out.</p>
    <p>So what names are already on  the restricted name list, and how
      can we reframe the end of that sentence to preclude some hate
      speech proponent from thinking up something new that we have
      difficulty stopping?</p>
    <p>Stephanie Perrin<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-07-26 2:16 a.m., dorothy g
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAH2xXE60DmaiOeCMDgXgiLkxQ_uBbYCZ_fRPJTxtLMzQc2=GAw@mail.gmail.com">
      
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I would
          definitely side with Kathy on this.  There is clear precedent
          in terms of potential negative impacts. How can we adjust the
          recommendation to make it less 'sweeping' or throw it out.
          Unfortunately I am only seeing this on 26 July.  Can you tell
          us what happened.</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 19:34,
          Kathy Kleiman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kathy@dnrc.tech"><kathy@dnrc.tech></a> wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>Juan,</p>
            <p>Tx for asking .  Unfortunately here the concept is
              Applicant Freedom of Expression - sometimes at the expense
              of the freedom of expression of the rest of us.  <i>Should
                Applicants for New gTLDs be allowed to use any word they
                want for any reason they want regardless of our rights -
                as registrants and users?   </i><br>
            </p>
            <p>I'm in the camp that says no.  Others have already fought
              this battle for "geos" - gTLD strings that represent
              well-known cities such as .PARIS and .LONDON.  <u>As a
                Community, we agreed that Applicants must get the
                permission of the region to use this term.  </u>The
              Amazonia Region learned the hard way that they had to
              fight for their rights to have space in . AMAZON, which
              was applied for by the company.</p>
            <p>We will continue to see groups concerned that a
              religion's name will be misused by one group within the
              larger community, or by someone with no identification
              with the religion whatsoever.  These are the controversies
              you cannot anticipate fully ahead of time.</p>
            <p><u>But the purpose of this Recommendation from the SubPro
                Working Group is <b>to give the Applicants for New gTLD
                  more rights, </b>and very clear and express rights. 
                <b>To be fair, that takes away some rights from everyone
                  else, including us (NCSG and Noncommercial Registrants
                  and Internet Users).  </b></u><u>I would limit this
                recommendation to be interpreted as <i>narrowly as
                  possible</i></u><i> </i>- <i>there are future new
                gTLDs with global impact; a lot of damage can be done by
                a new gTLD falling into the hands of a future registry
                that truly opposes what the string means (think racial,
                religious and gender hatred).</i><br>
            </p>
            <p>From below: <i>"</i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Applicants
                can apply for any available gTLD other than those
                restricted based on technical standards, pre-established
                reserved name lists, and other restrictions detailed in
                the AGB."</span></p>
            <p><font size="6"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> ==> 
                  this is a problem. <br>
                </span></font></p>
            <p>Best, Kathy<br>
            </p>
            <div>On 7/25/2023 1:34 PM, Sam Lanfranco wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)">I
                    have two minor wording comments and a more
                    substantive comment.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)"> </span></p>
                <ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
                  <li style="color:rgb(112,48,160);margin-left:0in"> <span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Wording
                      comment: Maybe replace “when submitting an
                      application” with “when applying”?</span></li>
                  <li style="color:rgb(112,48,160);margin-left:0in"> <span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Should
                      ‘evaluation...performed by independent
                      third-party” specifically include the word “<span style="background:repeat yellow">vendors</span>”
                      or just say “independent third-parties”?</span></li>
                </ol>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)">Substantive
                    comment: This text explains both ICANN’s respect for
                    the freedom of expression and factoring that into
                    the new GTLD proposal selection process. </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)">This
                    is not the place for a wider discussion, but it is
                    worth remembering  that freedom of expression is at
                    the core of the Universal Declaration of Human
                    Rights (UDHR) and that ICANN has not really taken a
                    position regarding a commitment to adhere to the
                    principles of the UNHR in its work within its remit.
                    ICANN did have a bit of a “skunk works on Human
                    Rights” when stakeholder groups ran a Working Party
                    (not Working Group) episode discussing Human Rights
                    within the ICANN remit, There may be growing
                    pressure for ICANN to be more declarative in this
                    area going forward, Just a thought!</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)">Sam
                    Lanfranco</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border-width:1pt medium
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                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> NCSG-Discuss <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU></a>
                      <b> On Behalf Of </b>Juan Manuel Rojas<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 24, 2023 8:10 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Introduction of Freedom of
                      Expression Topic on SubPro IRT</p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Dear
                          all, </span></p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">As
                            you already know some of us are working as a
                            part of SubPro IRT, currently the WG is
                            discussing about Predictability and for our
                            next meeting (tomorrow 25th at 20 UTC) the
                            Freedom of Expression is being introduced.
                            As a team we would like to know what are
                            your concerns with the writing of the
                            following paragraph, having into account
                            that is a Draft to start the discussion,:</span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">"</span></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Applicant
                              Freedom of Expression - proposed AGB text</span></p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">DRAFT
                                AGB TEXT START</span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">"ICANN
                              respects the freedom of expression rights
                              of applicants that are protected under
                              internationally recognized principles of
                              law. Applicants can apply for any
                              available gTLD other than those restricted
                              based on technical standards,
                              pre-established reserved name lists, and
                              other restrictions detailed in the AGB.
                              Applicants should be mindful of
                              limitations to free expression [hyperlink
                              to LPI section] when submitting an
                              application as detailed in the AGB.
                              Applications are subject to an evaluation
                              and objection process [hyperlink] as
                              described in the AGB and will be
                              unsuccessful should an applied-for string
                              be found to violate<br>
                              applicable laws or other rights and
                              requirements specified in the AGB. The
                              evaluation of applications, including
                              decisions on objections, will be performed
                              by independent third party vendors who
                              will take into account freedom of
                              expression considerations together with
                              other relevant factors. Please see the
                              relevant sections of this guidebook for
                              more information on the evaluation
                              [hyperlink] and dispute resolution
                              process. [hyperlink]."</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Excuse
                              the timing but that draft was sent out
                              until today. We will be waiting your
                              observations at this topic. </span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div id="m_6499794964587294903m_-8169918707649532228ydpbc80bd55yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1467397914851_28423">
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:repeat white"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black">JUAN
                                  MANUEL ROJAS P.</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:repeat white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:gray">Director
                                  - MINKA DIGITAL Colombia</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div id="m_6499794964587294903m_-8169918707649532228ydpbc80bd55yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1467397914851_28423">
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:repeat white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:gray">NPOC
                                Policy Chair - NCSG/GNSO</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:repeat white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:gray">Founding
                                  member - ISOC Colombia</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
                            </div>
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                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:repeat white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:gray">Master
                                IT candidate, UNAD</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:repeat white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:gray">Registered
                                Linux User No.<b>533108.</b></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
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                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:repeat white"><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black">Cel.
                                  +57 301 743 56 00<br>
                                  Instagram/Twitter: <a href="http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">@JmanuRojas</a></span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
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                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                            </span></p>
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                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> 
                                                                       
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            </blockquote>
            <pre cols="72">-- 
Kathy Kleiman
President, Domain Name Rights Coalition
</pre>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br clear="all">
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>stay well, kind regards</div>
          Dorothy Gordon</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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