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<p>Hi Farzi,</p>
<p>I see your concerns, and share them, but I don't see the GAC
suggesting a full-blown PDP. What their letter of April 22nd
references is the GNSO/GAC discussion in 2017 of IGO and Red Cross
Identifiers which was a dialogue with members of the Board,
leaders of Council and representatives of GAC,
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/ismail-to-botterman-22apr22-en.pdf">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/ismail-to-botterman-22apr22-en.pdf</a></p>
The questions Manju raises are good ones. For my part, I think:
<p>- the Facilitator should be a neutral one and brought in from
outside of ICANN. Closed Generics is not a difficult or a
technical issue, but a competitive and antitrust one. I think a
neutral facilitator could help the parties come together more
quickly than anyone from the Community - which has become
polarized on this issue. <br>
</p>
<p>- Composition of the small group for the dialogue must include
the full range of GNSO views on the Closed Generics issues, and
that would definitely include NCSG (as writer of the only recent
letter of dissent on the Closed Generics proposal, included by
Council to Board,
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2022/correspondence/santos-to-fouquart-14apr22-en.pdf">https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2022/correspondence/santos-to-fouquart-14apr22-en.pdf</a>
<br>
</p>
<p>- I do not think the Proposed Parameters are correct. They
eliminate the "Status Quo" - which is the way we did things in the
First Round. In the first round, because no one could figure out
what it meant to apply for and operate a new gTLD as a Closed
Generic to serve the "public interest," and after a huge outcry
from the ICANN Community and small organizations around the world,
the Board banned Closed Generics and dozens of proposed applicants
like Amazon and Google changed their applications from closed to
open, e.g., for .blog, .search, .cloud, .app, etc. It was a good
outcome! <br>
</p>
<p><b>For the last six years, in every other new gTLD Review I have
been part of (both working groups), the status quo is always the
starting point for every new gTLD policy matter. </b>If the
status quote worked in 2012, then it would work now unless there
was a clear consensus to change the rule. Hundreds of new gTLD
rules were decided this way in RPM WG and Subpro WG. Here too,
our position should be that the ban on Closed Generics must remain
unless this dialogue can find its way to agreement. It's widely
unpopular with the biggest US companies, but it is a fair and very
consistent starting point. They can't change the rules without
consensus just because they want to. <br>
</p>
<p>- Absolutely, let's have discussions with GAC and ALAC! In the
Hague, and even better, before the Hague.</p>
<p>Best, Kathy<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/17/2022 12:33 AM, farzaneh badii
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAN1qJvAVwmRBt9NX63KvWV4RvDZTdiOh_2tjE9yoasueaRgMpw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Manju, </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">What
GAC is suggesting is a full blown PDP on its own. In their
letter they want to create another process to build consensus.
They are re-opening the issue. They also want to have an
"EPDP" ( I did warn the council members at the time when they
were coming up with multiple EPDPs that it was a recipe for
overburdening us and re-opening issues.)</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">We
need to be cognizant of the dangers of re-opening issues and
our recommendation about criteria should be in these lines:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">The
GAC wanted to have a Dialogue about Closed Generics. We need
to have a dialogue and not a full blown PDP process.Therefore
having a facilitator, representatives from each stakeholders
etc is formalizing this process to unacceptable degrees. If
the GNSO council wants to just use its power to convene
another PDP or EPDP then it should say so. If it's just a
dialogue, why do we have to get a facilitator, have a
representation etc... lets just have a meeting with them -
with key people from the PDP- that's what a dialogue means. A
dialogue doesn't mean another PDP. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">We
need to talk to GAC directly about this and I suggest we do
that during this upcoming ICANN 74. Can we arrange that? Been
a long time since we have not had a meaningful one on convo
with them which was a mistake in my opinion. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:01
PM 陳曼茹 Manju Chen <<a href="mailto:manju@nii.org.tw"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">manju@nii.org.tw</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi
all, </div>
<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">As
promised in the policy call yesterday, I'm circulating
the tasks the Council small team on closed generics is
working on: <a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VtFiY-rLgP3r3uCaufgRA69DVoSYIBIyP_cLIB9PDdI/edit#"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VtFiY-rLgP3r3uCaufgRA69DVoSYIBIyP_cLIB9PDdI/edit#</a></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">We
have been through the first 2 tasks but nothing is set
in stone yet. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">We
will start working on 'task 3', which is to 'provide
guidance on the conditions, parameters, and methodology
for the dialogue, which will be subject to mutual
agreement with the GAC'.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">There
are 3 questions I'd like to get input from our NCSG
members:</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<ul>
<li>how do you think of the criteria for the
facilitator, anything to add or delete?</li>
<li>what do we think would be the best composition for
this future GNSO group that is going to talk with
GAC?</li>
<li>Do we want to have some side discussions with the
GAC and ALAC on this issue? since our position is
kind of aligned, it might be nice to collaborate.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Will
highly appreciate any feedback!</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Manju</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 17, 2022 at
3:59 AM Brenda Brewer <<a
href="mailto:brenda.brewer@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brenda.brewer@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Dear all,</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Please find
attendees, replay, and chat details for
the NCSG Monthly Policy Call held Monday, 16 May
at 11:30 UTC. The transcript will be sent upon
completion. Thank you!</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Kind regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Andrea and
Brenda</span></p>
<div
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:1.5pt
solid windowtext;padding:0in 0in 1pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">ATTENDEES: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> Benjamin
Akinmoyeje, Bolutife Adisa, Bruna Martins dos
Santos, Bukola Oronti, Cindyneia Cantanhede, David
Morar, Ephraim Percy Kenyanito, Farell Folly, GZ
Kabir, Juan Manuel Rojas, Kathy Kleiman, Manju
Chen, Poncelet Ileleji, Rafik Dammak, Raymond
Mamattah, Razoana Moslam, Shah Zahidur Rahman,</span>
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Shavkat
Sabiro, Taiwo Peter Akinremi, Tomslin Samme-Nlar,
Vernatius Ezeama |
<b>ICANN org: </b>Andrea Glandon, Brenda Brewer,
Carlos Reyes</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">ZOOM Replay
Link:
<a
href="https://icann.zoom.us/rec/play/jGvk2dE8n0EdRFypPIcVUV_XfH7lTt1yzzyV6H66DJkw3qET0eN7VntQZLz12tofNHkuTmoM61WlII8-.9dmu0QZWa-bctCLF"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Here</a></span></b><b><span
style="color:black"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">ZOOM Audio
Link:
<a
href="https://icann.zoom.us/rec/play/FpG4Rop0xRM9MqC8p4uiocna_XQdCnwO59eEyj9Zbsuirn4Y9NiM2uSUqbNKNzPMbn-wSgPdzfGmHjsZ.I5mZ5rRMUYzvbClv"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Here</a></span></b><b><span
style="color:black"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">ZOOM Chat
Link:
<a
href="https://icann.zoom.us/rec/sdownload/myC9Vp-Uf_7VTpQRSvfgHPJmj7XGSr4K1f4zgiLVvkzqml2bvDR0P0A_xX8aoVm14J8xTr4OpzB7UiOq.Dv1hz6sCOoXQEO7o"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Here</a></span></b><b><span
style="color:black"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Kathy Kleiman
President, Domain Name Rights Coalition
</pre>
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