<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I agree, +1 Farzi.  However, changing this situation seems pretty improbable at this time.  The lack of support from our colleagues is indeed distressing.<div>Stephanie Perrin<br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 10, 2021, at 02:59, Wolfgang Kleinwächter <wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">

  
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   1+ to Farzaneh 
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   Wolfgang 
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    farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii@gmail.com> hat am 10.09.2021 06:36 geschrieben:
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     Hi Raphael,
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     Thanks for this. Why do you think the most likely outcome maybe the status quo? 
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     And are we sending the letters? I think if they might raise a couple of familiar issues which I address below
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     - They might say they don't want a large NomCom. That is fine. we don't necessarily care if they reduce the number of NomCom representatives. Say if NCSG and registrars and registries  have only one, then CSG should only have one too.
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     - Another thing that you might want to consider is that NomCom and whoever wants to stop remedying this imbalance insist on NomCom members being independent from their constituency and working in the community's interest (I think there is some wording in NomCom operating procedure that is invoked and interpreted that way). If that is the case, then they shouldn't worry about changing the composition and having an equal number of appointees. Every body is working for the interest of the community.  
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     All in all, we are all working in the community's interest as a whole by bringing our diverse perspective to the table. If this under-representation continues, then the interest of the community is at risk, and frankly has been for way too long. 
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        <span style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif;">Farzaneh </span>
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     On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 5:10 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <<a href="mailto:rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com">rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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      Dear all
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       Quick update, as there was what I think was a final call on the matter today, this time hosted by the RIWG itself - Rec 10 of the RIWG will stay as previously described (see this thread and previous on the matter)
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       That certainly means discussions at the GNSO level down the road, and probably not very far down the road, as to how to allocate the nomcom seats for the GNSO. Still, despite not being desired by anyone, the most likely outcome may be status quo. 
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       Have a nice day, 
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       On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 1:02 AM Remmy Nweke <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" rel="noopener">remmyn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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        Thanks Bruna
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         I think the letters are good to g
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         On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 20:19 Bruna Martins dos Santos, <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com" rel="noopener">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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          hello all! 
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          <br>So, i have added just two short sentences to the letters but I think they are all good to go. On that note, I will add the two into a letter format and keep the document open for review until tomorrow COB.  --> link is here: <a target="_blank" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S6_YV-UDyn_6bjvuvZPPUwwXP7zmiNFbXT5GmdphgM4/edit" rel="noopener">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S6_YV-UDyn_6bjvuvZPPUwwXP7zmiNFbXT5GmdphgM4/edit</a>
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          <br>ps. Thanks for the reports about the call. This call was scheduled at date I had previously informed I was not able to attend even despite the fact we had a tie but I'm glad some of us could attend. 
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           best, 
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           On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:54 AM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com" rel="noopener">rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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            Hi all
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             Thank you Remmy. As you mention, the current situation may be attributable to the changes in leadership. 
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             A short summary of today's call with RIWG members and GNSO leadership: 
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             - The current recommendation by the RIWG is a bylaw change to the effect that the GNSO would keep its number of seats (7) but how it would attribute them is up to the GNSO itself. 
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             - IPC reps, speaking for the CSG, want a hardcoded number of nomcom seats for the CSG and the NCSG in the bylaws. They appear hellbent against the current RIWG recommendation, as it would cause incommensurable (they might have actually used the word "infinite" - would need to look at the chat transcript) harm to the CSG interests in the long term. Assuming from that wording, I presume they will do everything to oppose the proposed Bylaws change/recommendation. Unsure of what that means in practice though. 
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             - CPH does not take a side, and does not want to be involved. Unclear whether they would oppose a bylaws change based on the current proposal. 
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             - IPC/CSG are not in favor of attributing a seat to NPOC and rather want NCSG to have the seat(s) (I put an "s" there, but I presume they don't envision NCSG having more than one seat if the number stays at 7...) 
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             - ISPCP fear that the current proposal will result in the status quo, which they do not want. That technically aligns with our position. But they support the general CSG consensus (i.e. status quo, no amendment) although I do not know whether they support this new idea of putting CSG/NCSG seats in the bylaws.  
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             Again, not having taken part in earlier debates on the matter, I am still unclear as to why the IPC/CSG are so against the current resolution. It does open the door to them getting their representation reduced through the GNSO, as now nomcom seats could technically become "GNSO seats" and could (god forbid!) be dealt more evenly rather than based on constituency count. That being said, to my mind, the current resolution/amendment proposal only kicks the ball into the GNSO court. So live to fight another day, as they say. I mean, it's not like they completely lack influence at the GNSO council...
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             I'm wary of hardcoding a new setup in the bylaws. The current, maybe soon previous one, is not good, but I don't think we want a new hardcoded setup that will still disadvantage us; giving the NCUC seat over to the NCSG and keeping the 4 CSG seats is basically copy paste of what we have now. So if I have to choose I'd go with the current RIWG proposal. 
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             Anyhow, please discuss and maybe we'd need to rephrase the letters slightly in order to reflect the fact that we want a change but not the one CSG is arguing for now (I mean, if we can even call that a "change") 
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             Have a nice day, 
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             On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 5:39 PM farzaneh badii <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" rel="noopener">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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               Drafted two letters (ISPCP and Registry)  in the Google doc. Please have a look and let me know if they are fine and edit as much as you like. 
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               We probably need a better letter to the Board. 
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                  <span style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif;">Farzaneh </span>
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               On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 12:11 PM Bruna Martins dos Santos <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com" rel="noopener">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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                Hello, all, happy to help coordinate these efforts. 
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                 I have just opened a google docs placeholder for us to start drafting it: <a target="_blank" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S6_YV-UDyn_6bjvuvZPPUwwXP7zmiNFbXT5GmdphgM4/edit" rel="noopener">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S6_YV-UDyn_6bjvuvZPPUwwXP7zmiNFbXT5GmdphgM4/edit</a>
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                 Do we have an additional volunteers to help draft the letter? Once we have the letter ready I can suggest a communication for us to send to <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">ISPCP and the RySG. </span>
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                 Best, 
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                 On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 11:14 AM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com" rel="noopener">rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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                   Thank you for your input Farzaneh. 
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                   I am transferring this thread over to the NCSG mailing list to further discuss and coordinate the drafting. 
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                   Do note that in the next 10 days or so there will be a call between RIWG representatives and SG/Cs leadership. While the two letters on the table here are not conditioned on whatever may transpire from that meeting, it may further inform our stance. The EC will report on that meeting as with the previous ones. 
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                   Have a nice day, 
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                   On Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 23:49 Remmy Nweke <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" rel="noopener">remmyn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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                    Thanks Farzaneh
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                                               <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">REMMY NWEKE,  </span><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><em>mNUJ, mNGE, mGOCOP</em></span>
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                                              Former Vice President, African Civil Society on Information Society (ACSIS)
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                     On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 2:49 PM farzaneh badii <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" rel="noopener">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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                       Thanks Raphael.
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                       I looked over the objections from last year. I am not surprised by IPC/BC response, they have always had an obvious interest in being overly represented on NomCom while it is obviously unfair. 
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                       I am surprised by ISPCP and the registry stakeholder group. <a target="_blank" href="https://community.icann.org/display/OR/Implementation+-+Outreach" rel="noopener">https://community.icann.org/display/OR/Implementation+-+Outreach</a>
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                       First of all, I believe that the Board's fear of the empowered community is misplaced. By design the empowered community can be initiated easily but to get it finished they need others support which is not that easy to obtain. I might be wrong. But I would like to hear more from the Board. Secondly, how are we supposed to fix a wrong right by not being blocked all the time by those who actually benefit from this unfairness? 
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                         I think we need to reach out to the registry stakeholder group and the ISPCP and ask them why they think it is fine that the noncommercials be under-represented on NomCom. Why do we need another group to study the imbalance (RySG recommends this). It's obvious that there is an imbalance. No need to ask IPC and BC. We know their rationale. 
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                       Can we also write a letter to the Board? This issue can also be dealt with at the NCSG level because this is about the imbalance of representation between the commercial stakeholder group and the noncommercial stakeholder group on NomCom. 
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                       Lets:
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                       - write a letter to the Board 
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                       - talk to ISPCP and the RySG (or write to them) 
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                       Best 
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                          <span style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif;">Farzaneh </span>
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                       On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 8:38 AM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com" rel="noopener">rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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                        Hi Farzaneh 
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                         Regarding the RIWG, they (apparently) have not consulted since the feedback was sent by various groups a year ago. No one knows what was done with that feedback. Specifically it was feedback from IPC and BC, and a few others; that feedback was negative, and the Board does not want to adopt a resolution that would contain the bylaws change wrt to the NomCom, just to have it become a mess at the Empowered Community step, because several Cs feel their feedback was disregarded in its entirety. 
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                         That being said, that is my understanding based on the discussions during the call. I don't know the rest of the story and haven't followed up with NomCom review and the RIWG, and so cannot really say more on that. So the issue is not that something has been decided, I think, but more that the RIWG has been more or less silent for a year, or so. 
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                         As for WS2 it's also hard to elaborate on that more without having had a look at what Org has in store re their "triage document" or however they want to call it. They refused to elaborate during the GNSO leadership call, despite the repeated demands by the ISPCP, Bruna, me, and a few others. I honestly don't know what recommendations are the responsibility of the community, as I said. So we'll see when said document comes out, and then we can come back on both jurisdiction and HRs. 
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                         Once we have that document out re WS2, we can come back to Board or Org on those two that were more important for us. As for the RIWG, I'd rather understand where they stand and what's going on before taking action... 
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                         On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 3:18 PM farzaneh badii <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" rel="noopener">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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                           Hi Raphael, 
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                           Thank you. 
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                           As to NomCom, I do not understand what the Board is arguing here. It's not clear that RIWG has reached out to the community and consulted? How did they come to that conclusion? The RIWG did various consultations with different groups and the imbalance between the representation of commercials and noncommercials is very clear. If the NomCom review and RIWG can't fix an unfairness in representation that is so apparent, why are we even doing such expensive reviews? Is there a resolution or Board's minutes about this? Perhaps we can have a meeting with Matt Shears, the appointed NCPH board member? 
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                           As to the WS2, I see no mention of Jurisdiction. There is quite a lot for Org to do for the Jurisdiction issue. Where are we on that? It's true that OFAC is a complex and long process but it's been three years since we  submitted a recommendation to ICANN to find ways to apply for OFAC license. The new gTLDs that have a direct relationship with the domain name registrants have confiscated and cancelled people's domain names in sanctioned countries. That even applies to the Public Interest Registry .NGO... they don't even allow people in sanctioned countries to register a .NGO. 
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                           Another is the Human Rights which I have not followed. Is that the community responsibility too? 
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                           I suggest we have a meeting about both issues with the GNSO Board members or send them a letter. 
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                              <span style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif;">Farzaneh </span>
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                           On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 11:32 AM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com" rel="noopener">rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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                            Dear all, 
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                             Please find below a summary of the most important points that were discussed during the GNSO leadership call that took place last week re WS2 implementation, NomCom review, and a few other matters, on 5 Aug. Several persons from Org intervened on the call. 
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                             Have a nice day, 
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                              -- The NomCom RIWG has not been reporting for several months, and specifically it is not quite known at the community level what they did with the (overall negative) feedback they got on the implementation plan for the NomCom review, about a year ago. 
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                              As a reminder, neither NCUC nor NCSG, nor NPOC submitted comments on that plan. The main change being considered is changing the allocation of seats within the GNSO, and not changing the total number of GNSO seats on the NomCom. Hence, the GNSO would have to figure out by itself who to allocate its seven seats to and on what basis. 
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                              The Board will not move with the required Bylaw amendments regarding the NomCom as long as it's not clear whether the RIWG has properly reached out and consulted the community. It obviously does not want to have the Empowered Community shut down the Bylaws amendments.
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                              -- There is a "triage document" that will come out of Org Soon(TM) regarding WS2 recommendations implementation, for those recommendations that are the responsibility of C/SG/SO. Org seems quite adamant that there is a lot for the community to do. Still, despite several questions from different parts of the GNSO, we couldn't get any specifics on this. It took staff more than 15 mins just to tell us the document in question is not ready yet. 
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                              In case you missed it, here is where Org stands with the implementation of its "own" WS2 recommendations, from last May <a target="_blank" href="https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/an-update-on-work-stream-2-implementation-4-3-2021-en" rel="noopener">https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/an-update-on-work-stream-2-implementation-4-3-2021-en</a>
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                             Additionally, we had a discussion, probably more than a year ago, regarding WS2 recommendations implementation, where it was clear that most of the recommendations were for the Board and Org to implement... We will have to wait and see what is in that document. 
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                      <strong><em>Bruna Martins dos Santos <br></em></strong>
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                      <p style="color: #222222; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;">Advocacy Coordinator | <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dataprivacybr.org/en/" rel="noopener">Data Privacy Brazil Research</a></span></span></span></p>
                      <p style="color: #222222; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;">Member | <a target="_blank" href="https://direitosnarede.org.br/" rel="noopener">Coalizão Direitos na Rede</a> <br>Chair</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> | <a target="_blank" href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/stakeholders-constituencies/ncsg" rel="noopener">Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group at ICANN</a><br></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;">Co-Coordinator</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> | <a target="_blank" href="https://igcaucus.org/" rel="noopener">Internet Governance Caucus </a><br></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;"><br></span></span></span></p>
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                       <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000; font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Twitter: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/boomartins" rel="noopener"><span style="color: #1155cc;">@</span>boomartins</a> // </span></span></span><span style="color: #202124;">Skype: bruna.martinsantos</span>
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                      <span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a target="_blank" href="mailto:bruna@dataprivacybr.org" rel="noopener">bruna@dataprivacybr.org</a> and <a target="_blank" href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com" rel="noopener">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a></span>
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                <strong><em>Bruna Martins dos Santos <br></em></strong>
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                <p style="color: #222222; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;">Advocacy Coordinator | <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dataprivacybr.org/en/" rel="noopener">Data Privacy Brazil Research</a></span></span></span></p>
                <p style="color: #222222; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;">Member | <a target="_blank" href="https://direitosnarede.org.br/" rel="noopener">Coalizão Direitos na Rede</a> <br>Chair</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> | <a target="_blank" href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/stakeholders-constituencies/ncsg" rel="noopener">Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group at ICANN</a><br></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;">Co-Coordinator</span></span></span><span style="color: #000000; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> | <a target="_blank" href="https://igcaucus.org/" rel="noopener">Internet Governance Caucus </a><br></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000;"><br></span></span></span></p>
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                 <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #000000; font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Twitter: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/boomartins" rel="noopener"><span style="color: #1155cc;">@</span>boomartins</a> // </span></span></span><span style="color: #202124;">Skype: bruna.martinsantos</span>
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                <span style="font-size: xx-small;"><a target="_blank" href="mailto:bruna@dataprivacybr.org" rel="noopener">bruna@dataprivacybr.org</a> and <a target="_blank" href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com" rel="noopener">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a></span>
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