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<p>Hi folks. Of course we can talk about whatever we want, and if
we want the Board to prepare we can send an addendum. See the
highlighted portion of my message below. What I was looking for
was some kind of focused question about this nine paged document.
IF you just want to ask questions , I am not really sure we need
to add a further addendum, but in the interests of time I am
sending a generic question.<br>
</p>
<p>Re Milton's second proposal.....I certainly get the concern.
Further legal certainty is quite likely to lead to LESS
centralization in my opinion. However, given that Goran has
historically not appreciated us correcting him and his letters
describing the EPDP and the DPAs, I am not sure we gain much by
barking up this particular tree. We have a question on the EPDP,
we can raise it then if we really want to start a fight.</p>
<p>On the matter of the Operational Desigh Paper, I would invite
those who have expressed concern to raise this issue for us
(James, Milton, Bruna). I would add Rafik, who made a few
eloquent points about it in the GNSO Council webinar the other
day. Procedurally, I think it is very important that any
operational concerns be raised during the policy development
phase, not at the Board decision phase. ICANN is morphing into a
bureaucracy, not a multistakeholder organization where policy is
developed by the stakeholders. <br>
</p>
<p>Thanks for your interest in this topic!! I apologize if I was a
bit snippy about the deadlines, but nobody ever thinks about these
things until the last minute.</p>
<p>Cheers Stephanie<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-10-07 11:40 a.m., Mueller,
Milton L wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:BN6PR07MB2865C05C09AB03B41A405EBDA10A0@BN6PR07MB2865.namprd07.prod.outlook.com">
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<span style="color: #ffa500;">EXTERNAL EMAIL: </span> Treat
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bruna<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
can discuss it with the board. Stephanie just needs to
update our request. I have heard directly from board
members that other constituencies do this all the time.
Just send them a revised list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
NCSG-Discuss <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"><NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruna Martins dos Santos<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 7, 2020 11:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Congratulations and a reminder<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I'm
assuming Milton and James are referring to the group that
issued the Operational Design Phase Paper. According to
the document: "The Operational Design Phase will be
initiated by the Board and include two tracks of activity:
ICANN org’s assessment of the impact of proposed policy
recommendations; and the opportunity for community
feedback on such an assessment.". <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Definitely agree with the
concerns and, despite the fact that we won't be able to
discuss it with the board, should I add this to the NCUC
meeting agenda ? Or maybe we can open a different thread
on this topic. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best, <br>
B<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:35 PM
Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie@digitaldiscretion.ca" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie@digitaldiscretion.ca</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Unfortunately,
i had to submit the topics by the deadline yesterday.
However, the topics fit under the epdp topic. Can you
give me a reference for this Design feedback group to
cite please? <font size="+3"><b> I will send this
addendum.</b></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On
Oct 6, 2020, at 15:14, Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">milton@gatech.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span>
<o:p>
</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">I would propose two
topics.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">One would be
to second (or third) James Gannon’s suggestion
that we critically assess the so-called Design
Feedback Group.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">2.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">The other is
that we discuss the letter that Goran sent to
three European commission members regarding
the SSAD. In that letter, The ICANN CEO
mistakenly claims that “the community
recommended that the SSAD should become more
centralized in response to increased legal
certainty.” This is simply not true.
Recommendation 18 called for the creation of a
Standing Committee that could modify the SSAD,
but nowhere it is stated that we are commited
to more centralization in response to
increased legal certainty. “</span>The Charter
must allow the Committee to address any
operational issues involving the SSAD. This may
include, but is not limited to, topics such as
Service Level Agreements (SLAs), centralization
/ de-centralization, automation, third party
purposes, financial sustainability and
operational / system enhancements.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">In both of these cases,
we see ICANN’s CEO attempting to bypass or
create parallel processes to the legitimate,
bottom up policy development process of the
GNSO. There is a pattern here, and it must be
confronted. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
NCSG-Discuss <<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James Gannon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 5, 2020 5:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Congratulations and a
reminder<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
would strongly support a very hardline
discussion on the new Design Feedback Group
concept that has been proposed, it runs the risk
of fundamentally undermining the GNSO in a very
real manner and needs some serious discussion
before it becomes embedded and too late to
object to its role and scope.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:black">James Gannon</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">NCSG-Discuss
<<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>>
on behalf of Rafik Dammak <<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply to: </b>Rafik Dammak <<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 5 October 2020 at
07:29<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>"
<<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Congratulations and a
reminder</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
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<p>While I have your attention, may I
please remind you that we have to have
proposals for topics to discuss withe
the Board by Monday. So far, noone has
proposed anything except Kathy Kleiman,
who thinks (as I do) that a discussion
of the new google format for seeking
comments may be a good topic. I don't
know about the rest of you, but I find
this new format, while helpful to staff
in compiling comments, restricts the
ambit of comment and may lead to bias.
It is also a nightmare to navigate, in
my opinion, having had a difficult time
following the EPDP comments. I am about
to review the comment on Sub Pro (Here
is the form:
<a href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/gnso-new-gtld-subsequent-draft-final-report-2020-08-20-en" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/gnso-new-gtld-subsequent-draft-final-report-2020-08-20-en</a>)
and I expect it to be a painful
experience as well. Don't let my
grumbling deter you though, please take
a look at what has been submitted on
this important topic, available here <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VOCuHrCIWc3D9aJV2-woOob8atmg6o20AzE7NMse5CE/edit#gid=472588409" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VOCuHrCIWc3D9aJV2-woOob8atmg6o20AzE7NMse5CE/edit#gid=472588409</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
don't have an issue with the use of forms.
I understand the weight of habit, how it
is hard to change that we might find it
easier to write comments on more or less
freestyle ( which IMHO encourages focus in
many occurences on rhetoric than
substance). there is a reality check,
public comments are not asking simple
questions that expect straightforward
answers . It usually includes more than
dozen of policy recommendations , plus all
kinds of questions from WG asking for
input. I see that it requires structure
that a form outline can give and help. Is
there another alternative to explore which
can give better experience? maybe, it can
be something to explore<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
complained before that some of our
comments might not have been captured in
staff summary, that is unlikely to happen
with form where responses and questions
are clearly indicated and visible. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p>In the absence of other suggestions
coming from members, I am going to
propose discussing the results of ICANN
investment and participation in the
Internet and Jurisdiction project.
Members may be aware that ICANN has
participated at the Board level in this
interesting work, and while I have no
figures for the financial investment, it
must be significant, judging from the
level of participation of staff and the
Board. The problem of jurisdiction and
choice of law remains one of those hardy
perennials, we certainly had it arise in
the context of the EPDP, and the recent
Schrems II decision (<a href="https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2020-07/cp200091en.pdf" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2020-07/cp200091en.pdf</a>)
and the US White Paper response to that
decision (<a href="https://www.commerce.gov/sites/default/files/2020-09/SCCsWhitePaperFORMATTEDFINAL508COMPLIANT.PDF" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.commerce.gov/sites/default/files/2020-09/SCCsWhitePaperFORMATTEDFINAL508COMPLIANT.PDF</a>)
brings the issue of transborder dataflow
back into focus. I realize this is not
everyone's interest, but it is mine, and
if you are not going to suggest
anything, this is what I propose to
inquire about.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
have a suggestion, I want to discuss with
the board about implementation and
approval of recommendations. In particular
there is a new idea from ICANN CEO
proposed to SO/AC leaders to have design
implementation to help the board before
approving recommendations. It looks ok
but we need to think about the whole PDP
lifecycle (we tend to focus on the WG
phase) and the impact of such a new
vehicle on certain PDPs. There are also
issues regarding implementation like for
EPDP phase 1 that I would discuss with the
board.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Rafik<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i>Bruna Martins dos
Santos </i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Skype ID:
bruna.martinsantos<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">@boomartins<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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