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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Can we stick to the facts at least, not “three billionaires”, three large diversified private equity firms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">---</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">James Gannon</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann@FERDELINE.COM><br>
<b>Reply to: </b>Ayden Férdeline <icann@FERDELINE.COM><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, 8 December 2019 at 01:20<br>
<b>To: </b>"NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" <NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [proposed letter] NCSG Concerns About the Sale of the Public Interest Registry to Ethos Capital<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;background:white">As the letter notes, Verisign originally operated .org and under that period, it still fulfilled its role as a home for not for profits and other
organizations due to the contracts and rules attached to .org.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">True, but just like the original electrical grids were not public utilities but privately owned, times change. .ORG has been operated by a non-profit for 17 years now. It would be a tragically regressive development for this public good
to now shift away from the hands of a non-profit and into the hands of three billionaires. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;background:white"> The problem is the larger context of what's happening, not that the sale is happening. If ISOC divested .org without the lifting of the price
caps, I suspect in general the news would be a little more than a footnote. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I agree. The sale would still be problematic, but given what we have been presented with, it's really quite terrible. Private investment equity firms do not generate value; they extract value, and given this firm is a two-person shell company,
we have no track record with which to assess their past promises/commitments and whether they have honoured them. I think then that it is only fair to assess them on what we do know, which is that none of their principals or investors have previously been
impact investors. Investors look for funds aligned with their goals, and what we have in front of us are the names of three investors with reputations for valuing large, sustained returns from their investments.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you outline what you intend to put in this letter vs. the existing one purposed Ayden. While I fully agree that we need to send a unified letter to the CEO/board, I'm concerned that an entirely new letter will simply serve to split
the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think your predication has proven, unfortunately, to be true.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ayden Férdeline <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sunday, December 8, 2019 12:09 AM, Michael Casadevall <michael@CASADEVALL.PRO> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In general, I agree that the NCSG must formalize the concerns and submit it to the board if nothing else to get a response. Full disclosure, I'm the owner of an active B-Corporation with a .org domain (<a href="http://soylentnews.org">soylentnews.org</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 5:33 PM Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu">milton@gatech.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">This is not a dramatic change in the entire DNS industry. Operationally and price-wise, PIR was not much different from any other registry. Only difference was its small annual donation to NCUC and its rather toothless
Advisory Committee.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm less concerned on the actual operator of the .org domain as what this represents in the bigger picture. In a timeframe of months, we've seen price caps removed from the .org domain with community input either rejected or ignored, followed
by the news of the transfer of the .org domain. To be frank, as long as rules and regulations protected .org, the actual operater is in effect irrelevant. I would prefer it remain with a not-for-profit with an organization that has a history of representing
NFPs and similar the best, but at the end of the day the registrar contracts and polices relating to the .org domain is what actually matters. As the letter notes, Verisign originally operated .org and under that period, it still fulfilled its role as a home
for not for profits and other organizations due to the contracts and rules attached to .org.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">As I’ve said numerous times before, what we need out of this controversy is better protection for .Org registrants: longer term registrations, no URS, content neutrality. We are not going to get that if we keep misdirecting
civil society’s efforts towards “stopping the sale,” based on the pretense we can turn the clock back to 2018 and pretend this never happened. And in case you hadn’t noticed, the status quo ante was not that great, anyway.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">More or less agreed. The problem is the larger context of what's happening, not that the sale is happening. If ISOC divested .org without the lifting of the price caps, I suspect in general the news would be a little more than a footnote. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">By the same token it would be a travesty if NCSG were unable to get its act together to submit a unified letter to ICANN’s CEO and board regarding what we want them to do. So it looks like I will have to develop an
alternative draft and I hope our leadership in the PC can pull things together in time.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you outline what you intend to put in this letter vs. the existing one purposed Ayden. While I fully agree that we need to send a unified letter to the CEO/board, I'm concerned that an entirely new letter will simply serve to split
the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Watch for it.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> NCSG-Discuss <<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ayden Férdeline<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 7, 2019 2:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [proposed letter] NCSG Concerns About the Sale of the Public Interest Registry to Ethos Capital<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">It’s seems to me that this is not only a company sales! It’s a dramatic change in the domain names area and in the field of registrars where Icann has a lot to say <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">I agree, Carlos. Thanks for weighing in.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">I worry that the sale of PIR to a private entity investment firm will significantly alter the Domain Name System for the worse. We were lucky to have PIR as a non-commercial registry operator serving as a counterbalance against purely
commercial ones. PIR ran .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG for the benefit of registrants and non-commercial users of the DNS, whereas other top-level domains are run by private companies with purely financial objectives. While the interests of companies and users do at
times overlap, they can also conflict, and when this occurs there are significant human rights implications
<a href="http://eff.org/deeplinks/2019/12/we-need-save-org-%E2%80%A6" target="_blank" title="http://eff.org/deeplinks/2019/12/we-need-save-org-%E2%80%A6">
as EFF has outlined</a>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Ayden Férdeline <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">On Saturday, December 7, 2019 3:17 PM, Carlos Vera <<a href="mailto:cveraq@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">cveraq@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">It’s seems to me that this is not only a company sales! It’s a dramatic change in the domain names area and in the field of registrars where Icann has a lot to say <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Carlos Vera<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">isoc Ecuador<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">El 6 dic. 2019, a la(s) 20:58, James Gannon <<a href="mailto:lists@icann.guru" target="_blank">lists@icann.guru</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span><span lang="EN-US">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">ICANN has absolutely no role in stopping the sale, if EFF and other orgs are serious about this then they should be taking actions in the PA courts system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">NCSG has spent years telling ICANN to stop overreaching and stick to its limited mandate, now is not the time to throw all of that work in the bin, ICANN does not regulate the sale of companies, we all should know this if we are participating
in ICANN policy processes. Those who wish to intervene in this should do, but at least put time and effort in the right fora.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">---</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">James Gannon</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">From: </span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">NCSG-Discuss <<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>> on behalf of Mitch Stoltz <<a href="mailto:mitch@EFF.ORG" target="_blank">mitch@EFF.ORG</a>><br>
<b>Reply to: </b>Mitch Stoltz <<a href="mailto:mitch@EFF.ORG" target="_blank">mitch@EFF.ORG</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, 7 December 2019 at 00:11<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>" <<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [proposed letter] NCSG Concerns About the Sale of the Public Interest Registry to Ethos Capital</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">I support submitting the letter drafted by Ayden. Amr proposed, in the alternative, "engaging with both ICANN and PIR on how PIR can better serve the needs of civil society." While I support such engagement, it gives us no leverage to
effect change. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">On the NTEN call yesterday, Andrew Sullivan and Erik Brooks said that they intend to conclude the sale as quickly as possible, but no later than the first quarter of 2020. Once the sale is finalized, we will have little to no influence
over the operation of .ORG. The only formal constraint on that operation is the Registry Agreement between PIR and ICANN. And earlier this year, when that agreement was renewed, it was altered to make it less protective of registrants in several ways. ICANN
staff dismissed thousands of comments that were nearly unanimous in opposing the new contractual terms. There was no multistakeholder input.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">This means that if we don't stop or at least delay the sale, we can "engage" with the newly for-profit PIR all we want, but they will have little incentive to make any changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">There is plenty that an unrestrained PIR can do to hurt the interests of noncommercial registrants. The reason there hasn't been much harm yet is because of ISOC's influence, or at least ISOC's concern for its reputation. A mysterious
private equity firm that didn't exist eight months ago will have no such compunctions.
<i>And we will have no real influence.</i> That's why we need to call on ICANN to halt the sale. How can we fail to respond
<i>now</i>, when it might mean something?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Mitch Stoltz<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Senior Staff Attorney, EFF | 415-436-9333 x142<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.eff.org/donate" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/donate</a> | <a href="https://act.eff.org/" target="_blank">https://act.eff.org/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">On 12/4/19 7:43 AM, Nick Shorey wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Hi Ayden,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Thanks for the responses. I agree it is possible it could be seen as an indirect change, though I read it more as a situation where PIR were to outsource registry backend operations for example.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Re open tender - I’d personally prefer PIR remained as it were. An open tender process risks the potential for an even less appropriate operator winning the bid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Nick Shorey<br>
Phone: +44 (0) 7552 455 988<br>
<a href="mailto:lists@nickshorey.com" target="_blank">Email: lists@nickshorey.com</a><br>
Skype: nick.shorey<br>
Twitter: @nickshorey<br>
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Web: <a href="http://www.nickshorey.com" target="_blank">www.nickshorey.com</a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">On 4 Dec 2019, at 15:32, Amr Elsadr <<a href="mailto:aelsadr@ICANNPOLICY.NINJA" target="_blank">aelsadr@ICANNPOLICY.NINJA</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">On Dec 4, 2019, at 5:24 PM, Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@FERDELINE.COM" target="_blank">icann@FERDELINE.COM</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">This letter is not about halting the sale; it is about preventing the transfer of the Registry Agreements for .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG to Ethos Capital. The decision to sell PIR's assets is indeed a matter for ISOC to decide. If this is not
clear please feel free to edit the letter to make this distinction more evident. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Nobody (to my knowledge) has suggested that a transfer of the Registry Agreements to Ethos will take place. This would make Ethos the Contracted Party, but by all accounts I’ve seen, they will still remain with PIR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">But yes…, I do agree that this might qualify as an indirect change of control.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">The way that the letter is currently worded suggests that the NCSG will ask the ICANN Board to terminate PIR’s Registry Agreements, and transfer them to another entity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US">Amr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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