<html><head></head><body>Hi,<div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Yup…, this is correct. I’m not a member of any of the NCSG constituencies, but rather a constituency-less member of NCSG. I have no say in what the NCUC or NPOC would propose to do about this topic, but to be clear, I have no veto rights to what NCSG can do either.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">I’m simply expressing my opinion as a member of NCSG, and it’s up to other NCSG members to speak up and disagree with me, or not. I’m only one member out of hundreds, and should the NCSG Policy Committee (of which Farrell is a member) disagree with me, or determine that my views are not representative of our Stakeholder Group, then my opinions should be overruled.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">More substantively to Farrell’s question, Milton and others who’ve put in a lot of work on the CCWG-ACCT during the IANA stewardship transition probably know a great deal more about how the Empowered Community mechanisms and Administration work than I do.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">However, my very basic understanding of the Empowered Community would lead me to believe the answer to Farrell’s question is “yes”, the NCSG can try to get the Empowered Community Administration to do something about this, via the GNSO. This is because the GNSO is represented on the Empowered Community Administration as a whole, and not the NCSG.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Having said that, I’m doubtful the NCSG will find a great deal of support within the GNSO to do anything about this at that level, but I might very well be wrong.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">For more on what the specific powers of the Community are, check this <a href="https://www.icann.org/ec" class="">web page</a>.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Thanks.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Amr<br class=""/><div><br class=""/><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 23, 2019, at 4:44 AM, Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@GATECH.EDU" class="">milton@GATECH.EDU</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"/><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Farrell:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Amr did not say that we CANNOT send the so-said letter to the ICANN Board.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">He said that he doesn’t want us to. We can do it if we decide to. And if NCSG as a whole does not agree to do it, then NCUC can do it.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Since Amr is not a member of NCUC, for example, he would not be able to stand in the way of a consensus within NCUC.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Right, Amr? ;-)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NCSG-Discuss <<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" class="">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Ekue Farell Folly<br class=""/><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, November 22, 2019 9:54 AM<br class=""/><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" class="">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br class=""/><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [article] Internet world despairs as non-profit .org sold for $$$$ to private equity firm, price caps axed<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Amr,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Just one question for my understanding.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">If according to the procedures, the NCSG could not send the so-said letter to the ICANN board, could the the NCSG does something through the GNSO as a member of the Empowered Community? I am not saying that we should write such a letter but if we all agree to do so and the obstacle is only procedural, then perharps this possibility could help.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">On Fri, 2019-11-22 at 12:22 +0000, Amr Elsadr wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: rgb(114, 159, 207); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Hi Sam,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">I’m gong to be awfully blunt in my response to your suggestions, but please understand, that I do this only to make a point as clearly as I can.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">For years, the NCSG has taken principled stands on what the limitations of ICANN’s powers and mission should be, in order to not allow the Org to put undue pressure on gTLD policy development, and to adhere to due process. For the NCSG to send the ICANN Board a letter asking them to do what you’ve proposed would undermine a lot of good work done in the past.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">A couple of assumptions on my part:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">1. That when you say the NCSG should send a letter to “the board”, I assume you mean the ICANN Board.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">2. That you’re asking ICANN Org to exercise its power using article 7.5 of the .org Registry Agreement.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">While asking the ICANN Board to take this matter up as you suggest might seem tactically sound in the short term, it is strategically a bad thing in the long run. Unless you can point to contractual provisions that provide ICANN Org with a legitimate reason to delay or terminate PIR’s contract, what EXACTLY are you asking them to do? On what basis should or can ICANN require that PIR remain a not-for-profit? I won’t even get in to the price cap issue, as I think I’ve made tested the patience of many of our members discussing this in the recent past. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">When we work on policy development at ICANN, we do so with the understanding that there is a process in place, and that all actors involved are required to adhere to it. This is true for community SOs and ACs, ICANN Org as well as the Board. We also tend to build on past policy development efforts as a means of justifying what we advocate for, and what we push back against. Think back to the rage we expressed when ICANN over-reached, and introduced TM+50 in the Trademark Clearinghouse in blatant disregard for developed policy, or when we more recently objected to introduction of the URS in the new .org Registry Agreement. Ask anyone who’s worked on Rights Protection Mechanisms or gTLD Registration Data policies over the years.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">NCSG continually demanding that due process be observed and appropriate limitation of ICANN’s power, I’d hope, is part of NCSG’s identity and long-term objectives. Yet…, in the absence of justification to your requests below, I’d say that you are proposing that we abandon some of our principles. Aren’t principles only truly so when we stick to them when it is inconvenient for us to do so? We can’t exactly drop them, then pick them up again when it’s politically convenient for us to do so, can we?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">To me, what you are suggesting does the opposite of introducing or restoring integrity to any ICANN processes. It calls for us to abandon it.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">I personally have .org domain names registered, and am not at all pleased about its likely change of status from a NFP to a For-Profit org, but asking the ICANN Board to intervene on this imo opinion is not a good thing. Unless, of course, the change in status of PIR somehow conflicts with any obligations they have towards ICANN, but you haven’t pointed any out, and I have been unable to identify any conflicts with obligations so far (but I have tried to find any that might be out there).<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">My suggestion to you and others would be to take this up with the folks we really need to take it up with - ISOC's senior management and ISOC’s Board of Trustees. They are the ones who are in a position to address the requests you’ve proposed, and they’re the ones who've created this whole situation to begin with.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">End of blunt response, at least for now. ;-)<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Thanks.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Amr<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: rgb(114, 159, 207); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">On Nov 21, 2019, at 8:11 PM, Sam Lanfranco <<a href="mailto:lanfran@YORKU.CA" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">lanfran@YORKU.CA</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Stephanie, et. al.,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">I will not be at the IGF (darn budget constraint....I should have bought PIR (-:)) . Here is what I would suggest:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">I am not sure how we get THERE from HERE, but I think a letter to the board should focus on three aspects of the situation. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">First, that the impending sale be delayed (if not terminated). <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Second, that PIR as the registry owner of .org should remain a not-for-profit entity, whomever owns it<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Third, the decision to uncap .org registration fees be revisited to look at a decision with more constraints with regard to fee increases.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Somehow we have to restore integrity to the process, and in passing restore some of the tarnished dignity of ICANN.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Sam L. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: rgb(114, 159, 207); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">---- Original Message ----<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">From: Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@MAIL.UTORONTO.CA" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">stephanie.perrin@MAIL.UTORONTO.CA</a>><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Sent: Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 12:59 PM<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Subject: Re: [article] Internet world despairs as non-profit .org sold for $$$$ to private equity firm, price caps axed<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Lets try to get a draft out today so that you folks can meet and finalize in Berlin.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Stephanie Perrin<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">NCSG Chair<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""> <rest deleted></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""/></div></body></html>