<div dir="ltr">Thank you both Raphael and Ayden for raising these points. I don't have much to add other than you both make good points. Ayden is right in that it's important that civil society continue to engage in ICANN processes and that it's wise to remain skeptical. I also agree with Raphael that we as a community must raise this issue if we think it's important. Transparency is key. I appreciate that so many have been engaged in this thread even though it isn't directly addressing DNS-related issues (though the sustainability of the DNS is definitely an ICANN issue IMO). <div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Best,<br>-Michael</font><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 5:26 AM Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix <<a href="mailto:rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com">rbeauregardlacroix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Ayden, all<div><br></div><div>I think the wider discussion on transparency of funding is important, although I would not want to derail the thread and its main topic by commenting back on that here and now.</div><div><br></div><div>However your point about ICANN's tactical move with the carbon footprint thing is something to keep in mind in how we advocate for footprint reduction. That must not mean reducing the diversity/scope of the community who participates in f2f.</div><div><br></div><div>More generally, as the community, it seems we are somewhat in the backseat when it comes to the determination of how ICANN thinks about carbon footprint and its reduction. While we collectively reflect on "upgrading the multistakeholder model" or whatever that may be they are after, this is one good example of how, in the end, the community is relegated to a passive role outside of the traditional PDP silos (and even then?) ICANN is now maybe (?) spending some (?) money thinking (?) about its carbon footprint; it produces blogposts once in a while. No idea about internal processes and what is being done, and maybe more importantly no formal avenue for input. We should engage with their blogposts (and we do - thanks again Michael) but at the same time I feel like there is little we can do besides just that, at least in the current framework.</div><div><br></div><div>Can corporate practices can be changed by nice words and well-intentioned meetings? I don't know. Maybe. But I have doubts... Maybe ICANN will change, but I also have doubts about whether that change will be the one we actually want, or the one that we benefit us all (and our environment) the we we would want to. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I don't mean this as a turndown, but more as something that should be brought up in the whole let's make ICANN great again thingamajig. </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:50 PM Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank">icann@ferdeline.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>This is an interesting conversation and I was hoping to post something more thoughtful. Alas, I have not had the time to perfectly compose my thoughts here just yet. </div><div><br></div><div>I want to comment on ICANN Org’s likely motives and the recent blog post on ICANN’s carbon footprint. I think we need to keep this in context — ICANN Org does not have a track record of acting in good faith, and it’s recent statements that suggest a possible need to re-assess the value of funding travel to face-to-face meetings could seriously harm the interests of non-commercial users of the Domain Name System. </div><div><br></div><div>There are many ways in which ICANN Org could and should lower its carbon footprint. It could stop printing so many brochures. It could reduce internal staff travel. It could stop using paper coffee cups at its offices. Instead, what it is proposing is reassessing how much community travel to policy forums it funds. Note, ICANN is not suggesting trimming down the number of meetings — just the number of participants it funds. This will harm civil society, not industry or government, who will be able to self-fund their participation. If ICANN cares about reducing its carbon footprint, I would prefer we push for enrolling in schemes like a Compensaid which plants trees and funds alternative aviation fuels. </div><div><br></div><div>In our personal and professional lives it is sensible for us to consider our individual carbon footprints. But please do not think ICANN is reassessing it’s carbon footprint because it cares about the environment. It’s track record suggests otherwise. ICANN has historically always sought to discourage civil society participation in its policy making processes, and this to me is a rather transparent attempt at hindering our participation in meetings where we are having an impact and protecting rights. </div><div><br></div><div>The issues we defend at ICANN matter. They are important. We are upholding the rights of dissidents to be able to use the Domain Name System to express their political views. We are connecting women with shelters and health clinics. We are empowering communication networks in authoritarian regimes. None of this is popular, but doing this work does require us to participate in face-to-face meetings. Those of us who do know that many decisions are made in hallways, and not on the record. Remote participation is not a substitute here. </div><div><br></div><div>We should, of course, be prudent with our resources and make sure they are being properly allocated. If we are giving travel to individuals who do not participate in policy work (and unfortunately, we do - we do not hold ourselves accountable), that is unacceptable and must change. Those who do not contribute to our policy objectives should not be receiving civil society’s precious and limited travel resources. </div><div><br></div><div>I understand that some NCSG members (including some who do not even meet our membership eligibility criteria) are privately lobbying for our resources to be cut. I think this is dangerous and misguided. <u></u><u></u></div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div><br></div><div id="gmail-m_-8514074369016005326gmail-m_7564373802333495628protonmail_mobile_signature_block"><div>Ayden Férdeline </div><div><br></div></div> <div><br></div><div><br></div>On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 14:29, Alejandro Acosta <<a href="mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">alejandroacostaalamo@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Hello there,</p>
<p> This is quite interesting topic and I usually try to pay
attention.</p>
<p> What I'm going to say probably does not fall 100% in ICANN
ecosystem but anyhow I want to mention it.</p>
<p> As many of you probably know, when IETF (or other organization)
develop protocols they take into consideration many variable such
as performance, security, compatibility, and many more. However,
my perception is that energy saving & climate are not fully
considered. <br>
</p>
<p> I have commented out about this previously:</p>
<p><a href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/yedgGRf2oaSKNGssVQBcTdJm4JQ" target="_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/yedgGRf2oaSKNGssVQBcTdJm4JQ</a></p>
<p><a href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/X9twxdqy2Izvm8Ln0PXisy8t2Jk" target="_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/X9twxdqy2Izvm8Ln0PXisy8t2Jk</a></p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p> If my perception is wrong just ignore this message.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Alejandro,<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 9/26/19 3:23 AM, Michael J. Oghia
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Peter, dear Raphael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter – Thank you so much for sharing these and inviting me
to collaborate, it's really my pleasure. Thank you for
advancing this discussion, and as the IRPC is working so hard
to do, we absolutely <i>cannot</i> separate climate and
environmental justice from human rights. They go hand-in-hand,
and even if it's cliche to say this, it doesn't make it any
less true: we need the planet much more than it needs us. So,
all of us need to do our part as much as possible. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Raphael – indeed, I checked the US EPA's carbon calculator,
and the number equivalent was something like 1,036 cars being
driven per year or something like that. What that doesn't take
into account, though, is that it's not a flat comparison.
Regardless, though, I'm happy to push for this topic. We have
no other choice.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Again, I am well, well aware that there are many, many
pressing problems that civil society should address within the
ICANN ecosystem and limited capacity. Given the community's
role in shaping the direction of ICANN, however, I think it's
important for us to be aware of our responsibility too. </div>
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-Michael</font></div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 7:37
PM Peter Micek <<a href="mailto:petermicek@gmail.com" target="_blank">petermicek@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Hi
all,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">To
continue the good thoughts and ideas, I'm happy to say
that Access Now published another climate post today, on
the occasion of the UN Sustainable Development Summit. <span></span><a href="https://www.accessnow.org/sustainability-and-digital-rights-how-theyre-connected-and-what-that-means-for-our-work/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">https://www.accessnow.org/sustainability-and-digital-rights-how-theyre-connected-and-what-that-means-for-our-work/</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We go into more detail on some links we see between
digital rights and environmental justice. We focused on
building a sustainable internet, reducing e-waste, and
protecting environmental defenders. Thanks to Michael
Oghia for the research and references.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This post comes on the heels of our new commitment to
reduce the environmental footprint of RightsCon,
beginning with our June 2020 event in Costa Rica: <br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://www.rightscon.org/technology-in-the-time-of-climate-crisis/" target="_blank">https://www.rightscon.org/technology-in-the-time-of-climate-crisis/</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let's keep these ideas moving. Is there any mechanism
or meeting being planned to more formally unite the
climate justice and IG and digital rights worlds? <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Peter<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at
5:00 AM Michael J. Oghia <<a href="mailto:mike.oghia@gmail.com" target="_blank">mike.oghia@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi everyone,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Continuing the thread that Nick began a few days
ago, Adam Peake was so kind to share a blog post
about ICANN's carbon footprint that Goran just
published two days ago (it's great that all of these
points are converging). You can read it here: <a href="https://www.icann.org/news/blog/icann-s-carbon-footprint-blog" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/news/blog/icann-s-carbon-footprint-blog</a></div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While I'm probably not the first person to raise
this issue, I did <a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20170815_aviation_the_dirty_not_so_little_secret_of_internet_governance/" target="_blank">specifically
raise it</a> – multiple times – with Goran and the
board. Regardless of the response (i.e., support or
lack of support) from the community, I knew it was
important to do so. Goran told me, point blank,
during the open session with him and the board
during ICANN 60 (Abu Dhabi) that he was going to
make this a priority, though it will take time. The
fact that this is happening, even after some time,
shows real sincerity on his part, and I think we
should continue to advocate for ICANN Org to be
transparent about this facet of our work.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm encouraged by this, and while it is a
relatively small step, it's still one in the right
direction. This is probably a low priority for most,
but I think support for positive action is
important </div>
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-Michael</font>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Sep 24, 2019
at 5:30 PM Michael J. Oghia <<a href="mailto:mike.oghia@gmail.com" target="_blank">mike.oghia@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Bruna,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is definitely more of a case study of the
dangers of spreading dis/misinformation (and I say
that as someone who was raised in a
climate change-denying household for the record).
This would align quite well with what we at GFMD
(my organisation) are working on in our advocacy
work, and the Earth Journalism Network (an
Internews project) is very interested in this
topic, too. To me, addressing how misinformation
is exacerbating the climate crisis seems like a
much more pressing and underdiscussed topic than
the entirety of sustainability itself. </div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Best,</span>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 23,
2019 at 7:17 PM Bruna Martins dos Santos <<a href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com" target="_blank">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hey all, my two cents: <br>
<br>
I believe that additionally to that, we could
consider addressing the misinformation component
to Climate change. I guess Trump and now my
President with the entire fire at the Amazon
situation have been part of a series of world
leaders that have been denying the some climate
incidents and helping spread inaccurate
information about this.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In practical terms, I dont really know how
to address this, but maybe a call to world
leaders and organizations in not spreading
misinformation and promoting full disclosure
of information regarding this subject ? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>best, </div>
<div>B</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 23
sept. 2019 à 14:15, Nick Shorey <<a href="mailto:lists@nickshorey.com" target="_blank">lists@nickshorey.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Thanks Michael.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(FYI adding Carlos and Roli)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So it sounds like we have identified
several problems, and we have some ideas
for potential solutions (I like focused
problem-based policy challenges!).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In terms of the IGF - would it benefit
to see if we can create an additional
specific session to convene and discuss
this, outside of the Internet Rights and
Principles Coalition (IRPC) one?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nick</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Nick
Shorey<br>
Phone: +44 (0) 7552 455 988<br>
<a href="mailto:lists@nickshorey.com" target="_blank">Email:
lists@nickshorey.com</a><br>
Skype: nick.shorey<br>
Twitter: @nickshorey<br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin</a><br>
Web: <a href="http://www.nickshorey.com" target="_blank">www.nickshorey.com</a></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 23 Sep 2019, at 19:09, Michael
J. Oghia <<a href="mailto:mike.oghia@gmail.com" target="_blank">mike.oghia@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>Indeed I have Nick! I don't
mean to monopolise this thread
either, it's just something I've
been following for some time.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In terms of your
question, I think the best
policy outcome could be
two-fold:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Internally:
recognise how IG has a massive
footprint, and address it
accordingly. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Externally: work
with the private sector to
ensure that sustainability is
infused into the core of
technological design, and work
toward creating more circular
economies. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It will
absolutely take
multi-stakeholder
collaboration too!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">Best,<br>
-Michael</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon,
Sep 23, 2019, 6:49 PM Nick
Shorey <<a href="mailto:lists@nickshorey.com" target="_blank">lists@nickshorey.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div>Hi all - Adding Corinne
who replied on the ISOC
list and has been engaged
in this area.
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<div>Michael - Thank you
for sharing all this
information - you
certainly have been busy
on this topic!</div>
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<div>If you could see a
policy outcome agreed at
the IGF as a response to
a single aspect of the
Internet climate impact
problem, what would it
be?</div>
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<div>Kind regards,</div>
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<div>Nick</div>
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<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Nick
Shorey<br>
Phone: +44 (0)
7552 455 988<br>
<a href="mailto:lists@nickshorey.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Email: lists@nickshorey.com</a><br>
Skype: nick.shorey<br>
Twitter:
@nickshorey<br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin</a><br>
Web: <a href="http://www.nickshorey.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.nickshorey.com</a></div>
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<div>On 23 Sep 2019,
at 18:23, Michael
J. Oghia <<a href="mailto:mike.oghia@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mike.oghia@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi
Nick,
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<div>There's a
lot of ground
to cover here.
Let me address
your points
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:09 PM Nick Shorey <<a href="mailto:lists@nickshorey.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists@nickshorey.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div><b>1.
What debate is
currently
taking place
on this topic
and where?</b></div>
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<div><a href="http://www.circleid.com/members/7683" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">MO: As I said,
within the IG
space, it's
limited. I've
written a lot
about this
(see my
CircleId</a>
profile, for
instance), and
even <a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20170815_aviation_the_dirty_not_so_little_secret_of_internet_governance/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">wrote about
carbon
offsetting</a>
as it relates
to IG and
aviation in
general and
ICANN in
particular. </div>
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<div>This
isn't meant to
be
self-promotion,
but merely to
help
illustrate how
there is room
for this in
the IG
ecosystem.</div>
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<div>So far,
there is some
discussion in
the ITU
(e-waste, for
instance) and
within the IGF
with the IRPC
but it's
largely
glossed over
or taken only
as an
individual
stakeholder-related
issue (e.g.,
what data
centers,
private tech
companies,
governments,
etc. are doing
about it, and
not what we
are all
collectively
doing).</div>
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<div>I did an
entire session
on this topic
in 2017 at
EuroDIG. You
can see all
the
information
about the
session,
including a
list of
resources I've
compiled
related to
ICTs and
sustainability
at: <a href="https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/WS_11_2017" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/WS_11_2017</a></div>
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<div><b>2.
Where (if any)
do the gaps
exist in
current policy
debate or
initiatives?</b></div>
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<div>There are
many. I
outline at
least some of
them in this
chapter (Ch.
4) for the
DC3's 2017
report
outlining all
the elements
of sustainable
internet
access
contrasted
with
sustainable
development: <a href="http://bibliotecadigital.fgv.br/dspace/bitstream/handle/10438/19401/Community%20networks%20-%20the%20Internet%20by%20the%20people%2c%20for%20the%20people.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://bibliotecadigital.fgv.br/dspace/bitstream/handle/10438/19401/Community
networks - the
Internet by
the people%2c
for the
people.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y</a></div>
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<div><b>3.
What can we do
to progress
this topic
through
dialogue and
actions?</b></div>
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<div>Know
what's already
out there.
Here are some
notable examples and resources:</div>
<div><br>
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<div>2. The
ICT for
Sustainability
(ICT4S)
community: <a href="http://ict4s.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ict4s.org</a></div>
<div>3. The <a href="https://climateaction.tech/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://<span>ClimateAction</span>.<span>tech</span></a> community</div>
<div>4. The
IEA's
Digitization
and Energy <a href="https://www.iea.org/digital/%C2%A0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">report</a> and Greenpeace's <a href="http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/click-clean/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Click Clean</a>
campaign </div>
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<div>I've also
attached
slides from a
presentation I
give that
explains more
about it.
Happy to be a
resource!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>-Michael</div>
<div><br>
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<span id="gmail-m_-8514074369016005326gmail-m_7564373802333495628gmail-m_1428617260232182328gmail-m_6087536392528484889gmail-m_5888653141309152495gmail-m_-3875584729768989408gmail-m_5918369505484657436gmail-m_200950991642226125m_5744398284131103877cid:f_k0wmdry80"><Internet
&
Sustainability
(Oghia).pdf></span></div>
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<div><b><i>Bruna Martins dos Santos </i></b></div>
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<div>Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos<br>
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<div>@boomartins<br>
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