<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Hi Sam,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Thanks for the clarifications. NPOC is exploring ways to manage the funds in an efficiently, hence this thread. I will let you know when the EC has decided on the best course of action for the Canadian account. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Happy Birthday, and have fun </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Regards,</div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 12:07 PM Sam Lanfranco <<a href="mailto:lanfran@yorku.ca">lanfran@yorku.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="gmail-m_835823440318089730moz-cite-prefix">Hi Farzaneh.<br>
<br>
You are pretty much right. Three points of clarification:<br>
<ul>
<li>I have pulled back from the FC because of heavy (and about
to be a lot heavier) other internet related work obligations.</li>
<li>The NPOC account set up by Joan and me is there, sitting
idle. I have asked Joan to take the lead in where it goes. She
is waiting (I think) for this bigger discussion to conclude.<br>
</li>
<li>The process of setting up non-profit bank accounts in Canada
is very simple, the only constraint is those with signing
ability (single, double signatures, whatever) have to be
resident in Canada to go to a bank branch and sign the account
creation document, and to sign the signing privileges
document. There are no associated tax or formal organization
registration requirements. Each step just needs a letter from
the organization (e.g. NPOC, NCUC, NCSG) authorizing the
people here to do what they are doing in the creation of the
account.<br>
</li>
</ul>
<p>I hope this helps. For you information (and amusement?) I will
continue to do what I can with NPOC and NCSG but I am taking
some time off next month. It is to celebrate my 80th birthday,
going to Mexico with my girlfriend of 60 years ago. <br>
</p>
<p>Sam<br>
<br>
</p>
<br>
On 1/16/2019 10:51 AM, farzaneh badii wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">No I am sorry. Sam
stepped down from the FC a couple last year and he mentioned
that he does not want to be involved. I let him clarify it. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Also there are some
political issues here, we can't mix an NPOC account (or a
previous NPOC account) with NCSG account and leave NCUC out.
So NCSG account should be NCSG account with Stephanie Perrin
as the NCSG chair has come up with a preliminary plan. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 5:52
AM Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Yes, I think the account created by Joan and
Sam would presumably have to be renamed NPOC -> NCSG.
Other than that, I think as long as you're all Canadian you
can all access the account just as easy. I don't think you'd
be going physically to the bank all the time anyway. As long
as the bank has a branch close to all of you three, the
names can be changed without a hitch. As far as I can see,
the only issue is trust. I.e. that Sam or Joan wouldn't run
away with the funds. I seriously can't see that happening,
at all. I'm quite sure Joan or Sam would be willing to
change their name as the account holder into someone else,
say Stephanie, for example. I was just trying to make use of
what we already have.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Raoul<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:43, Remmy Nweke
<<a href="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" target="_blank">remmyn@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Hi Stephanie
<div dir="auto">Thanks to Ramirez for the intervention.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I am not sure both you and Sam have this
kind of account except I am missing something. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I thought he opened account for NPOC.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">At the same time there will be a cost of
operating whatever account we eventually decided and
must not overlook budgeting or planning for this cost
alongside every plan.</div>
<div dir="auto">Regards</div>
<div dir="auto">Remmy</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 11:30 p.m. Stephanie
Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Tamir
has volunteered to get some legal advice on
this from those who understand banking
better. The account is free. I think Sam's
account is on the same basis as mine. I am
looking into business numbers. I think we
have it all in hand. Sam and Joan and I are
actually quite far from each other. As long
as it costs nothing, I think we should stick
to this plan, while we investigate all the
ramifications of this.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Cheers
Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160moz-cite-prefix">On
2019-01-15 16:32, Remmy Nweke wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Stephanie
<div>Hope this meets you well.</div>
<div>Will not be of best interest to leverage
the NPOC account which Sam once opened and
since you are also within reach to make this
the best we can.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I had previously suggested we leverage this
kind of account before Sam insight came with
hope that there should be some kind of
Memorandum of Understanding among the Cs and
NCSG in the case of any hiccup with hope that
will help us navigate the NCSG imbroglio with
a given percentage set aside to caution the
taxes that is associated with it in the event
we have inflows, so that we do not overlabour
our volunteers for choosing to serve at the
highlevels.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>May be a revisit will help us all.</div>
<div>Remmy<br clear="all">
<div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 7:33 PM
Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie@digitaldiscretion.ca" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">stephanie@digitaldiscretion.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">Thanks for this discussion,
Tapani and Moritz. Obviously, I am
concerned abou this because I have no
desire to pay income tax on the amount
potentially coming into my account
from the PIR account, particularly
because it is coming form the United
States and this would not, to the best
of my knowledge, be covered under the
waiver we all sign as volunteers
accepting travel funds from ICANN. I
will be asking my account for advice
on this, at my own expense. The long
arm of the IRS is not to be
underestimated, for us Canadians, and
they can be quite arbitrary about
alleging taxes owed.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-cite-prefix">On
2019-01-13 06:25, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">On Jan 12 23:15, Moritz Bartl (<a class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bartl@RENEWABLEFREEDOM.ORG" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bartl@RENEWABLEFREEDOM.ORG</a>) wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">What is being discussed here is _not_ merely "opening a bank account".
What you are discussing is to set up organizations.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">Yes. That is the whole point, specifically to avoid this:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">If you run an account under your name, or a shared account with
someone else, you have the full legal responsibility.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">Yes. And that is our situation now.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">But, maybe more importantly, what you receive to this account is
(shared) income. If you don't declare it with your taxes, you are
committing tax fraud.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">This is not correct in general. Rules vary from country to country, of
course, and what you say may be true in some, but certainly not all -
the following applies in at least some I happen to know of.
All money that comes to your accounts is not income nor should be
declared as such. You can, for example, borrow or lend money, and if
there's no interest involved there's no income either nor any need to
declare such debts with your taxes (at least if your country has no
property tax).
More to the point, you can use your own account to handle money
belonging to someone else, including an association, without any tax
implications, and in many countries law also recognizes unregistered
or unincorporated associations (with various limitations on what they
can or can't do).
Whether any incoming money is ultimately taxable or needs to be
declared depends on all kinds of things, but often, e.g., membership
fees are tax exempt.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">If you buy services, you buy them for you, and they become your
legal responsibility.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">That is not quite accurate either. You can buy services even for an
unregistered association. You will be responsible for them, but if you
try to, say, take them away from the association, its other members
can sue you and win, depending on details of course.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">You can do so as a group, no problem, but you are not magically "not
a legal entity".
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730gmail-m_-5985500753275258057gmail-m_5751918257882931484m_8022188897960023160gmail-m_-7996104157767713853moz-quote-pre">I'm not quite sure what that means, but certainly even an unregistered
association can be a legal entity.
Registering or incorporating an association changes the situation, in
particular it limits personal responsibility and makes a number of
things legally much easier and better defined, but it's not a totally
clear cut, black-and-white distinction.
Anyway, you are absolutely right that there are all kinds of legal
complications and they should be well researched before incorporating
NCSG in any country.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="gmail-m_835823440318089730moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Visiting Prof, Xi'an Jaiotong-Liverpool Univ, Suzhou, China
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus), Econ, York U., CANADA
email: <a class="gmail-m_835823440318089730moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca" target="_blank">Lanfran@Yorku.ca</a> Skype: slanfranco
blog: <a class="gmail-m_835823440318089730moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com" target="_blank">https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com</a>
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852</pre>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">
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<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><font size="1">T: +1 (416) 907-0783</font></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><font size="1"><a href="http://fbsc.org" target="_blank">fbsc.org</a>,
www.fbsc.eco</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><font size="1">Chair: Victory
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