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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>OK … then those solutions are NOT models for us. Not the least because no one person should have the responsibility (and authority) over the funds by themselves.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for the info<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>P<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>O: +1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>My PGP Key: <a href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Raoul Plommer <plommer@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 7, 2019 2:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Rosenzweig <paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com><br><b>Cc:</b> NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Milton presumably has his account in Georgia and mine is in Finland. Mine is a very temporary solution and I actually want to get rid of the sole responsibility of keeping it together. At the moment the NPOC money is in my personal account but we've only had three transactions so far, since I received the money after the Barcelona meeting, so it's been easy to keep track of it. Again, I presume Milton has had his account since the beginning of NCUC. And apparently that has both NCSG/NCUC monies in it.<br><br>The problem has been, that unless somebody goes to USA (or Georgia?) or Finland in person, they cannot be added as a signatory.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Raoul<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 21:43, Paul Rosenzweig <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>That makes me want to ask: If NCUC and NPOC have accounts, where to they have them and how do they manage the issue? I would imagine they have the same types of concerns we do. We may not need to reinvent the wheel …<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Paul<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>O: +1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>My PGP Key: <a href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank">icann@ferdeline.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 7, 2019 2:04 PM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Rosenzweig <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@REDBRANCHCONSULTING.COM" target="_blank">paul.rosenzweig@REDBRANCHCONSULTING.COM</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I suppose the desire for a bank account arises because the NCSG does have donors, but it does not have a bank account for said donations to be paid into. At this time they are paid into the NCUC's bank account (I believe NPOC also has one). Whether a bank account in Estonia would be helpful for us I am not so sure about.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Ayden <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Monday, January 7, 2019 4:45 PM, Paul Rosenzweig <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@REDBRANCHCONSULTING.COM" target="_blank">paul.rosenzweig@REDBRANCHCONSULTING.COM</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p>All<o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p>FWIW, I did some research on Estonian e-citizenship a year back for an American client. The short answer is that “citizenship” is a misnomer. It is more like a verified identity, that is backed (in this case) by the Estonian government and its infrastructure. In other words, they will vet an individual, confirm their identity, and then use their infrastructure to issue a secure token to allow the individual to assert and prove that identity in any context where the counter-party will accept the Estonian government’s verification. <o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Right now, the main counter-party that will accept the identification is, naturally, the Estonian government itself. They have ambitions to make this into a more-widely accepted system, but there hasn’t been that much uptake globally … yet. The main virtue of the e-identity is that it is portable. Once you get it (and, BTW, my understanding is that you do NOT need to fly to Estonia to get it – you can go to an Estonian embassy wherever they are in the world) you can use it from anywhere and with anyone who will accept it.<o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p>As for uses – naturally the Estonian government uses it with Estonian citizens for almost all national purposes. They also use it, institutionally, within Estonia for non-governmental, commercial purposes. One example of that (the one proposed here) is that a non-Estonian, with Estonian “e-citizenship” (really, as I’ve said, a verified Estonian identity) can use that identity to open a bank account in Estonia, irrespective of whether or not they are a “true” Estonian citizen. [I assume, though I do not know, that the individual must also otherwise qualify to open a bank account – e.g. meet Estonia’s requirements for age; lack of a criminal record; etc.]<o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p>I really have no idea if NPOC, NCUC, NCSG need a bank account in the first place. But if we do, our use case (globally distributed membership/owners) is exactly the use case Estonia hopes to attract. They are still working out the kinks a bit, but as a matter of mechanics it should not be to difficult to accomplish, if we decide we want to do it. I’d be happy to help guide folks in the process when/if we go down that road.<o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Cheers all (and Happy New Year)<o:p></o:p></p><p>Paul<o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></p><p><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p>O: +1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></p><p>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></p><p>VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></p><p><a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p>My PGP Key: <a href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> NCSG-Discuss <<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joan Kerr<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 7, 2019 10:17 AM<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>Subject:</b> Re: Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia<o:p></o:p></p></div><p> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Hi Raoul,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>The idea of e-citizenship is new to me. What are the legal obligations? I think this seems far reaching. Perhaps, we can discuss the options within NPOC and then with the Finance Committee when we have clear definitions of how it might work.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p>On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 6:23 PM Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p>I've tried unsuccesfully opening an account for NPOC here in Finland and what it really comes down to, are the restrictions of having account owners that are based in Finland and every time they would be changed, they'd have to come over to Finland to do so. The same goes for the NCUC's current account.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Now, I think we (me and Tapani) have found a solution to our problems and it is such that I will get a e-citizenship in Estonia, register the C's and the SG in Estonia and then open the bank account to each of them separately in person. We'll probably need another few people to take e-residencies as well, to share the responsibility and accountability of said accounts and the e-residency costs 100€ per person. <a href="https://apply.gov.ee/" target="_blank">https://apply.gov.ee/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>None of our SG's organisational structure is officially recognised anywhere but inside ICANN - I think we should change that and register in a country that is actually a lot more lenient than Finland or USA, for example.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://www.estoniancompanyregistration.com/nonprofit-organisation-registration-in-estonia" target="_blank">https://www.estoniancompanyregistration.com/nonprofit-organisation-registration-in-estonia</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p>The most essential difference to most countries is that Estonia allows change of authorised users on bank accounts to people with e-residency ID, and this change can be done in any consulate of Estonia in the world.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>All I would need, is the boat trip to Tallinn and back and one night in a local hotel. This would be less than 200€ in total.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>200€ for e-residency for two people, per account, so 600€.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p>We'd also need to cover the costs of registering our organisations in Estonia, which will probably make things easier, and I think all three can be registered for less that 200€ in total.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p>So... We'd need about a thousand euros + 5 people wanting to put their names as the account holders. What do you guys think? If we discuss this further, I might actually get all the details together by Kobe.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think it would be crucial to finally get our organisational infrastructure together and be able to change people as the account holders. Now the situation is really inflexible and reliant on a very few people with access to the accounts.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Once we register the organisations as not-for-profits, we could also finally get an government ID to start using Google's nonprofit benefits which are really quite numerous. Same goes for Dropbox for example, they give 30% discount.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Raoul<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>P.S. While I was searching, I found this a record of the CSG having a nonprofit register in the USA. I found that somewhat surprising.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p>--<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Joan Kerr,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Entrepreneur, Artist, Humanitarian</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>T: +1 (416) 907-0783</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Skype: joankerr_fbsc</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'><a href="http://fbsc.org" target="_blank">fbsc.org</a>, <a href="http://www.fbsc.eco" target="_blank">www.fbsc.eco</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Chair: Victory Garden Leadership Implementation Team</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Chair, Sustainable Agriculture, Global Humanitarian Technology Conference</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Chair: IEEE Smart Villages Project, Sustainable Agriculture Working Group</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Chair: ICANN Not for Profit Operational Concerns Constituency</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Recipient of the United Nations Civil Society Award (WSIS 2004)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Recipient, Region of Durham Community Partnership Award</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Advisor, IEEE Humanitarian Initiatives Committee</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>Advisor, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network, (CSAYN) Global Coordination Unit</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>