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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I think we have to
keep trying. We recognize that ALAC has always represented
commercial and IP interests....after all Leon, their Board
person, is an IP lawyer, just as one example. They have many
members who represent cybersecurity companies. They have tons
of ISOC folks who represent businesses. So we just need to
keep mentioning our concerns, and we will surface those who
also care about the end user who is entitled to rights
protection. <br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie Perrin<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande"></font></font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2018-10-03 09:42, Collin Kurre
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AFF03A52-957D-4E00-9FFD-A72F7A45D23F@article19.org">
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<div class="">Given the tagline “We Serve the Users”, I too have
been surprised and confused by ALAC positions at times,
perceiving them to be <i class="">against </i>the interests of
large portions (if not the majority) of internet users. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
For that reason, I agree that a face-to-face meeting would be
preferable to clear the air, identify joint interests, and lay the
groundwork for further cooperation and, ideally, joint action on
behalf of end-users.
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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<div class="">
<div class="">--</div>
Collin Kurre<br class="">
<div class="">ARTICLE 19</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 3, 2018, at 10:07 AM, AMADU
YUSIF <<a href="mailto:yamadu@ug.edu.gh"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">yamadu@UG.EDU.GH</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr"
style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
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sans-serif;" class="">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px;" class="">Arm, based on what your saying
and your experience, I think its a right time
to have a face-t-face meeting with <span
style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji',
'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI
Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;
font-size: 16px;" class="">ALAC to be able
to trash out with the <span style="color:
rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family:
wf_segoe-ui_normal, 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe
WP', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif, serif,
EmojiFont; font-size: 15px;" class="">consistently
conflicted issues. We all have agenda to
protect internet. </span></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div id="Signature" class="">
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif; margin: 0px;"
class="">Yusif Amadu<br class="">
eLearning Unit<br class="">
University of Ghana Computing Systems<br
class="">
University of Ghana<br class="">
Cell: +233244659245<br class="">
Skype: kooissi<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><font
style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NCSG-Discuss
<<a
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>>
on behalf of Amr Elsadr <<a
href="mailto:aelsadr@icannpolicy.ninja"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">aelsadr@ICANNPOLICY.NINJA</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>02
October 2018 16:41:12<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[NCUC-DISCUSS] NCSG collaboration with ALAC</font>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Hi,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">At the risk of being wrong, I’ll
go ahead and assume that scheduling issues are
likely why these joint meetings have stopped.
ICANN meetings have been a scheduling
nightmare for a few years now.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I wasn’t involved in the JAS WG,
but I first joined NCSG in 2010, and have been
pretty involved in GNSO/gTLD policy
development since 2012. I don’t think I can
recollect a single time I have been able to
collaborate with ALAC on their policy
positions. In my experience, their desired
policy outcomes have consistently conflicted
with our own. They almost exclusively seem to
favor IP rights and policies that favor LEAs
over the interests of non-commercial name
holders.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">One area I have found it helpful
to work with them is on process issues, so
non-PDP GNSO WGs, like the GNSO Policy and
Implementation WG. But certainly not
policy-oriented WGs.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If there is a reason to meet with
them, and collaborate, perhaps this can be
done over a conference call(s)? I don’t
believe we need to slice out a slot of ICANN
meetings to hang out, but that’s just me. I
also wouldn’t begrudge others for meeting with
them to try to identify common grounds.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Amr<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 2, 2018, at 1:23 AM,
Rafik Dammak <<a
href="mailto:rafik.dammak@GMAIL.COM"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rafik.dammak@GMAIL.COM</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr"
class="x_gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Hi Farzaneh,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">thanks for the
mention. to be accurate, the
joint meetings predates my
term as far as I recall. In
fact we got things done there,
for example, the CCWG on
Internet Governance was the
result of a joint effort
between ALAC and NCSG in
Buenos Aires meeting in 2013
and then evolved to full
cross-community working group
when chartered by GNSO, ALAC,
and ccNSO. We also had joint
efforts: as NCSG pushed for
new gTLD applicant support in
GNSO (And there was a lot of
resistance), we got ALAC
support and had the joint WG
between GNSO and ALAC known as
JAS WG. I think there were
also some joint statements
before.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">while I cannot
explain why we didn't have
joint meetings lately as it
may be the result of follow-up
and/or scheduling issues, I
see the invitation for
Barcelona meeting as a good
thing and we can follow-up. As
you indicated, I think we have
several areas of agreements on
several topics, while not for
a few others and that is
normal. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Rafik</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Le mar. 2
oct. 2018 à 07:52, farzaneh badii
<<a
href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
border-left-width: 1px;
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204); border-left-style: solid;
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;">Wolfgang
brought up the collaboration
of NCSG and ALAC and its
improvement on a thread on
NCUC mailing list, I thought
I bring it up here and give
it some thoughts. </div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;">ALAC and NCSG
have long been working with
one another. This relation
existed since Rafik was the
chair of NCSG and he had
maintained a connection with
ALAC and worked with
Olivier. (Rafik can add
more details but this is
what I heard was happening
during Rafik time). When I
was the chair of NCUC we
started our joint NCUC/At
Large outreach, that
tradition is still in place
until now. We also did an
NCSG/ALAC outreach during
the policy forum in Panama.<br
class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;">No doubt there is
some more work to be done. We
have some convergences but we
also have some commonalities.
NCSG invited them to NCSG
open session in Barcelona
which they kindly accepted and
we will have a 30-minute
discussion with them. <br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;">I think what NCSG
needs to do instead of
thinking about who to just
collaborate with, is what
goals we are pursuing and then
see where we can forge
connections and relations. We
diverge on some issues with
ALAC and on some issues we
have commonalities. We clarify
these and see if we can
support each other's work when
we have commonalities.</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;">Some might think
that because we criticize
ALAC's governance or are not
in favor of excessively
funding ALAC efforts, we are
against them. We are not
against ALAC. We provide
our opinion and feedback when
asked (for example in case of
the recent review or the
budget). We initiate
collaboration when there are
commonalities and we do events
with them. We should also
remember that ALAC does not
have solely a civil society
position but an end user
position which includes
businesses etc. So we don't
always hold hands. </div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;">Best <br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;">Farzaneh </div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""
style="font-family: verdana,
sans-serif;"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Ncuc-discuss mailing list<br
class="">
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href="mailto:Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Ncuc-discuss@lists.ncuc.org</a><br
class="">
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href="https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a></blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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