<div dir="auto">God bless Canadians, for their bridge building effirtd between Europe and it's lost colonies, which now own all patterns over the internet.....;)<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers Stephanie<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Carlos Raúl GUTIERREZ<br>Apartado 1571-1000<br>San José COSTA RICA</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Jun 4, 2018, 06:35 Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I actually spent quite
a bit of time examining this whole "cultural differences"
issue when working on my dissertation on ICANN. As a
Canadian, I believe there is a difference in the way we
approach data protection issues in this country despite being
swamped with US power and influence. We managed, for
instance, to get data protection law in place for the private
sector. However, nailing that elusive difference down is very
difficult, I think, and as Monika says the overwhelming
influence of economic considerations, path dependency and
institutional realities that are difficult to change at ICANN
define the current situation in my view. However, the
stupidity, obstinacy and poor risk management of the ICANN
organization are breath-taking, and I will confess the
question WHY does keep arising. It is not as if anyone who
has worked in the data protection arena has never seen
corporate reluctance to add expense or take on liability
risk....far from it, those are constants.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande"><br>
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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">The conclusion I
reached is that ICANN has catered to the drivers of the US
economy in the Information society, and it accommodated law
enforcement interests who are always seeking ways around
administrative impediments to access to personal data. The
GAC, in my view, has never stepped up to its role in enforcing
data protection law, but instead has facilitated law
enforcement agencies' desires to get around their
constitutional protections for individuals under criminal law
and fundamental rights instruments....and that desire,
unfortunately, appears to be shared by all law enforcement
agencies represented at ICANN, including the EU reps. Now
that is a cultural difference that could be examined
fruitfully, I suspect.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande"><br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">As far as the
uniqueness of the US approach to data
protection....commentators on the US lack of respect for
personal privacy have been around for centuries now, from
Dickens to de Toqueville to Boorstin. I think it is
fascinating, so still worthy of much research. I think
Priscilla Regan has written about it very persuasively, and
the differences are too important to ignore, if we care about
data protection and the autonomy of the individual in a global
society. But I do tend to agree that at ICANN....it's more
about the $$$.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie Perrin</font></font><br>
</p>
<div class="m_-6074241007976914891moz-cite-prefix">On 2018-06-04 03:44, Zalnieriute,
Monika wrote:<br>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">I agree with Milton,
that 'cultural differences' explanation does not explain a lot
not only in the WHOIS context, but I would also add that it
misses the point in the international data privacy law more
generally. Political economy considerations, institutional
analysis and path dependency explains much more. But
nonetheless 'cultaralist explanations' are often used to
obscure the matters, and are very popular at least in the
legal scholarship. As it does not require any deeper analysis:
'just you know, oh, there are cultural differences...'. </p>
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<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(127,127,127)">Kind regards, </span><span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(127,127,127)">Dr. Monika
Zalnieriute</span><span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(127,127,127)">Post-Doctoral
Fellow @ Melbourne Law School | </span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(127,127,127)">The University
of Melbourne I <a href="http://law.unimelb.edu.au" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">law.unimelb.edu.au</a> I</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(127,127,127)">185 Pelham St,
Carlton VIC 3053, Australia I</span><span></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(127,127,127)">Visiting
Fellow @ Center for Media, Data and
Society I
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<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:rgb(127,127,127)">Central
European University I <a href="http://cmds.ceu.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cmds.ceu.edu</a> I</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:gray"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:gray" lang="EN-US">Representative @
Executive Committee I
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<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:gray" lang="EN-US">Non-Commercial
Stakeholder Group I ICANN I <a href="http://icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">icann.org</a>
I</span></p>
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<div id="m_-6074241007976914891divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
NCSG-Discuss <a class="m_-6074241007976914891moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU></a> on
behalf of Mueller, Milton L <a class="m_-6074241007976914891moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:milton@GATECH.EDU" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><milton@GATECH.EDU></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 4, 2018 5:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="m_-6074241007976914891moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Info] German Court Rules on ICANN
Request to Preserve WHOIS Data</font>
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<div class="m_-6074241007976914891PlainText">Pino<br>
<br>
> Trying to deny cultural<br>
> differences is the beginning of the end of any
form of evolutive<br>
> cooperation among people.<br>
<br>
What? No one denied that cultural differences exist -
indeed, there are massive cultural differences within
Europe, and between regions of the US.
<br>
<br>
I am simply telling you that the so-called cultural
differences have little to do with who lines up on
which side of the Whois debate in ICANN. Economic
interests and institutional positions explain a lot
more. We gain little understanding of the situation by
talking about "cultural differences" except that you
piss off all the non-Europeans and convey a kind of
smug superiority which isn't earned.
<br>
<br>
Theories have to stand the test of empirical reality.
Before advancing your "cultural difference" theory
please explain why all the European GAC members called
upon ICANN to retain all current Whois data
collection, for example. Does your theory explain this
fact? Are they somehow not part of European culture?
Did they not get the memo? By the way do you know
which GAC statements I am referring to? Do you know
what the GAC is?<br>
<br>
Stereotypes such as "USA approach to political
science: avoiding any divisive subject trying to force
political correctness into everything" = just bizarre.
Pay attention to what is actually happening here.
Listen to what people actually say, as individuals.
Look beyond crude pre-conceived generalizations about
culture, people, academic disciplines and national
origin. You've got a lot to learn about the ICANN
environment and as you learn more I will be more than
happy to engage in "debate and strong rhetoric" with
you. <br>
<br>
--MM <br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: NCSG-Discuss [<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" id="m_-6074241007976914891LPlnk251338" class="m_-6074241007976914891OWAAutoLink" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
On Behalf Of<br>
> Moritz Bartl<br>
> Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 9:52 PM<br>
> To: <a class="m_-6074241007976914891moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Info] German Court Rules on ICANN
Request to Preserve WHOIS<br>
> Data<br>
> <br>
> On 04.06.2018 01:15, Giuseppe De Francesco wrote:<br>
Only by dealing with who we are we can<br>
> > overcome what is divisive to learn
cooperation. This is one of the<br>
> > problems in USA approach to political
science: avoiding any divisive<br>
> > subject trying to force political
correctness into everything. This as<br>
> > well is due to strong cultural differences:
Mediterranean<br>
> > civilizations thrive in debate and love
strong rethorics applied to<br>
> > arguing cases without hiding differences.
Avoiding to talk about<br>
> > differences is not helpful, actually it will
cause even wider divides<br>
> > on the long run because each side will be in
denioal until can no longer keep<br>
> it silent.<br>
> > This is a major problem in how public
policies are analysed drafted,<br>
> > at least this is my opinion.<br>
> <br>
> Thanks Pino, I agree wholeheartedly with this and
your earlier statement.<br>
> <br>
> While I'm at it, I want to congratulate the court
on its well-informed decision.<br>
> Sorry, but I don't know if I have to laugh or cry
at the ICANN statement about<br>
> not achieving "the clarity that ICANN was
seeking".<br>
> Sorry, but who is the individual who wrote this?
Do they think people are<br>
> stupid?<br>
> <br>
> Greetings to everyone from Earth, Europe,
Germany, Bavaria, Augsburg,<br>
> <br>
> Moritz<br>
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