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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Milton, you may be missing my point. Sorry if I was unclear.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There is no denigration of good people advocating good values.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The problem is that good people advocating good values can set in motion events that lead to bad outcomes (civil wars). And we have seen this many, many times in the last
ten years. In those other societies I don’t believe that the good people advocating good values sought violence, intended for violence to escalate, or welcomed violence when it engulfed their societies. But violence did occur and became the dominant dynamic,
with horrific consequences. So it is important to recognize a dangerous situation for what it is, and it is important to develop social change strategies that avoid violence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I have no doubt that Venezuelan civil society groups would agree that severe and prolonged violent conflict would be an undesirable outcome. So how can they avoid that? In
other societies such violence was not avoided. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This challenge is relevant to civil society groups everywhere. How can civil society effect social change, keeping the process peaceful and constructive? How can domestic
social conflict avoid external influences? These may be the questions of our times.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hans<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Mueller, Milton L
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 2, 2017 11:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Klein, Hans K <hans@gatech.edu>; NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: LACIGF side event - Internet in Venezuela<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hans,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In case you haven’t noticed, things are already violent in Venezuela.
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79;background:white">Venezuela has been rocked by nonstop street protests since the government’s attempt in late March to </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79"><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/30/venezuela-president-nicolas-maduro-national-assembly"><span style="color:#1F4E79;background:white">strip
Congress of its right to legislate</span></a><span style="background:white">. </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The left-populist regime has wrecked the economy, scapegoated everyone else for its devastation,
and is now violently attacking groups that want to change the government. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The event you are detracting is in Panama, not Venezuela, and it is a discussion of internet issues, not a “public demonstration.” I think you owe Renata an
apology. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> NCSG-Discuss [<a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Klein, Hans K<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 2, 2017 8:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: LACIGF side event - Internet in Venezuela<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I assume this side event on Venezuela, the Internet, and human rights is done with the best of intentions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">But recent histories in other countries might make activists think twice about setting in motion events that can lead in unexpected and horrific directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In Libya public demonstrations “quickly became violent” and were eventually followed by bombing by foreign powers; that country is now mired in civil war and many Libyans are
risking their lives to escape the country. In Syria public demonstrations “quickly became violent,” and foreign powers and various foreign-backed “freedom fighters” emerged to engage in what has been called the worst humanitarian crisis since World War II.
In Ukraine public demonstrations also “quickly became violent,” then there was a foreign-associated coup d’etat, and then a civil war began that has claimed an estimated 10,000 lives (so far.) Even in Venezuela in 2002 public demonstrations “quickly became
violent” and led to a foreign-supported coup d’etat (that was later reversed.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">So, pragmatically speaking, the utility of public demonstrations for achieving social justice goals is not above question. There seems to be a pattern of civil society demonstrations
“quickly becoming violent” and devolving into civil wars. Yes, regimes are changed -- but at the price of social chaos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">(I am doing early-stage research on the topic of information warfare and the transition to violence in civil society movements.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From what I read in the US media, Venezuela is experiencing serious economic and social problems. But those problems are nothing like what is going on in Syria or Libya or
other places. It would be a shame if well-intentioned demonstrations there led to serious conflict.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hans Klein<br>
Associate Professor of Public Policy<br>
Georgia Tech<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Atlanta, Georgia USA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> NCSG-Discuss [</span><a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Renata Aquino Ribeiro<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 1, 2017 10:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> LACIGF side event - Internet in Venezuela<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">An important side event in LAC on Digital Rights and Internet in Venezuela w/ some members<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">3aug 2pm (Panama time)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tweets #LACIGF10 #LACIGF<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please share among your networks<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-en-venezuela-tickets-36639262019?utm-medium=discovery&utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&aff=escb&utm-source=cp&utm-term=listing">https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-en-venezuela-tickets-36639262019?utm-medium=discovery&utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&aff=escb&utm-source=cp&utm-term=listing</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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