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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Wendy and Ayden<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I understand and sympathize with the distinction between cataloguing uses and justifying or not. However, as someone familiar with all the tricks played in the
Whois game, I think you may be falling for one of the older tricks. A long list of “uses” is developed, and then the dialogue becomes framed as “well if this is what people are using it for then we have to find ways to avoid disrupting these valuable uses.”
We’ve already been through one cycle of that game (or maybe two).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bearing that in mind, it matters a LOT “how infrequently” or frequently the thing is used. There is no generic “noncommercial use” of Whois. There are some who
use it the way Pranesh described, there are others who use it for trademark verification; there are a few who may use it to spam people; there are a millions who don’t use it at all. If nonuse or very occasional use is the norm amongst noncommercial users,
that matters. Please be careful in your use of this “data” – and I put the word “data” in scare quotes because you are not doing a systematic sampling of actual noncommercial population of internet users, you are collecting a few anecdotes.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> NCSG-Discuss [mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ayden Férdeline<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 5, 2017 4:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [INPUT REQUESTED] How do non-commercial Internet users use WHOIS?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Many nice points but I would like to re-centre the discussion please.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I understand the positions that have previously been taken, and know the evidence suggests that most non-commercial Internet users are unaware of WHOIS.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">However, for the purposes of our first exercise, we are trying to understand how WHOIS is used by non-commercial Internet users, no matter how infrequently. We are not yet at the stage of assessing whether an existing use is legitimate
or not. We have not been tasked with doing the work of the RDS PDP WG, which is assessing whether WHOIS is fit for purpose or whether a replacement Registration Directory Service is required.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If you use WHOIS as it stands today, kindly consider sharing
<b>which data elements you use</b> and <b>for what purpose</b>. This is the input we are requesting at this time.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks again for your suggestions.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ayden Férdeline<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline" title="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline">linkedin.com/in/ferdeline</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-------- Original Message --------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [INPUT REQUESTED] How do non-commercial Internet users use WHOIS?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Local Time: July 5, 2017 8:38 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">UTC Time: July 5, 2017 7:38 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">From: <a href="mailto:cedric@LAURANT.ORG">cedric@LAURANT.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To: <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I support Kathy"s position: we have to focus on distinguishing between<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">the compliant and non-compliant uses of the personal data in the WhoIs<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">database and<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1) find solutions to make technically as difficult as possible the use<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">of the Whois Directory for non-compliant uses; and<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2) sanction any non-compliant use.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cédric<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 7/5/17 10:32 AM, Kathy Kleiman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> +1 Niels. Further, I always thought that the first question to be asked<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> under European laws is not how people use the open data, but for what<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> purpose is the data collected?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> We now know from the work of the Registration Directory Services WG that<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> the purpose of "Whois data" is to support the registration and<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> maintenance of a domain name. Accordingly, why review the millions of<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> ways that people may use (and misuse) domain name registration data?
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> Why start with the "use cases" and not "the purpose?"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> Best and tx to our NCSG representatives for the time they are dedicating<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> to this fast-moving group,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> Kathy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> On 7/5/2017 5:05 AM, Niels ten Oever wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>> That people currently use WHOIS doesn"t need they _need_ to use WHOIS.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>> It"s important not to conflate things.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>> Owndership information could for instance also be obtained through the<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>> Chamber of Commerce or other company registers.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>> Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>> Niels<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>> On 07/05/2017 09:10 AM, Olévié Kouami wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Hi all<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Indeed NGOs use WHOIS.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> As a registrant they need the use of WHOIS services. The RDS in<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> construction have to take it info account.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Cheers !<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Olévié<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Le 5 juil. 2017 06:40, "Nadira Alaraj" <nadira.araj@gmail.com<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> <<a href="mailto:nadira.araj@gmail.com">mailto:nadira.araj@gmail.com</a>>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Thanks for this exercise.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> I use the WHOIS for one of the attempts to<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> authenticate the registrant of the domain name in particular the<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> national NGOs.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Best<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Nadira<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> On Jul 4, 2017 1:37 PM, "Ayden Férdeline" <icann@ferdeline.com<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com">mailto:icann@ferdeline.com</a>>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Greetings, all-<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Along with Stephanie Perrin and Wendy Seltzer, I am a part of<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> the ICANN GDPR Compliance Consultation Group. This group has<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> been formed to help ICANN gather the information it needs to<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> engage with data protection authorities and to obtain<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> actionable<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> legal advice.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> I committed last week to keeping the NCSG updated on the<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> activities of the Consultation Group over the coming months.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> In our first meeting, we committed to participating in a data<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> gathering exercise to identify the existing users of WHOIS,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> what<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> data elements they use, and for what purpose. At this time we<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> are not making the determination as to whether a purpose is<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> legitimate or illegitimate, though that call will come, or if a<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> data element comprises personally identifiable information. For<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> now we are simply trying to include all user categories to get<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> the most complete set of data points.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> We are interested in understanding how non-commercial Internet<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> users, who we in the NCSG purport to represent the interests<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> of,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> use WHOIS. We have conducted some informal consultation among<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> our peers and have been provided with a few use cases, but not<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> too many. It is possible that end users do not use WHOIS widely<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> [and that has been the assumption that has informed previous<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> exercises like this one], but if you, as an end user, do use<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> WHOIS, we would be curious to know for what purpose and which<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> data elements you rely on. Please share your thoughts either<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> on-list or with me privately, if you prefer.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> We have a very short turnaround time for this exercise. Our<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> next<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> call is this Thursday, and ICANN staff envision this entire<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> task<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> being completed by next week. The time for you to provide input<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> is thus now. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> Ayden Férdeline<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>> <<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline">http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">>>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cédric Laurant<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Global Data Privacy Attorney & Public Policy Expert<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(<a href="http://cedriclaurant.com">http://cedriclaurant.com</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Attorney at Law (District of Columbia Bar, USA) - Abogado | CIPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">CIPP/US, CIPP/E, FIP<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cedric -at- Laurant -dot- org (**) - OTR Chat: ask for my XMPP<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">username (***)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">---------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(**) GPG: 347F F3D6 DBE5 8075 5B2C E093 1FEC 5AC6 220B 2548 (Download:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://tinyurl.com/email-cedric">http://tinyurl.com/email-cedric</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(***) XMPP OTR: A337 7F47 79D6 7918 F3F5 90D0 5317 ECBC 2F73 D075<o:p></o:p></p>
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