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<big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Dear Paul<br>
<br>
Yes that might be the most logical solution but as always you
can not get it ever 100% right. What about different religious,
economical, ethnic groups in a <span style="font-size: 11pt;">state/distinct
economy </span>that feel connected to different other </font></big><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><font
color="#000000"><big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">s<big>tate/distinct
economy. In some cases they might even be members of a
obsessed majority, so votes don't help.</big><br>
<br>
<big>Looks like we have to look for the best possible and
not the ultimate solution.<br>
<br>
Just my 2 cents worth.<br>
</big></font></big></font><big><big><br>
<font color="#000000">Klaus</font></big></big> </span><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/14/2016 3:12 PM, Mueller, Milton L
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Excellent
idea! Why not float it in our comments?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
NCSG-Discuss [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rosenzweig<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 14, 2016 11:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: AW: [NCSG-Discuss] Geographic
Regions Review Working Group Report - NCSG Response<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
have no real knowledge of this issue at all, but perhaps
someone can tell me – why shouldn’t the state/distinct
economy be able to choose which region it wants to be in?
Obviously, it would have to live with that choice – it
can’t shuffle around every 6 months – but as an initial
matter, is there some reason that self-sorting is not an
option?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Just
curious<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul
Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweigesq@redbranchconsulting.com"><span
style="color:#0563C1"></span></a><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a></a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">O:
+1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">M:
+1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">VOIP:
+1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Skype:
paul.rosenzweig1066<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=9"><span
style="color:#0563C1">Link to my PGP Key</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
NCSG-Discuss [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 13, 2016 5:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: AW: [NCSG-Discuss] Geographic
Regions Review Working Group Report - NCSG Response<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ed, <br>
Perhaps you can help Ayden with the answer you would like to
see. In some ways, Taiwan is an outlier problem. I was one
of the commenters who encouraged Ayden to write about
allowing more flexibility around cultural, economic,
linguistic and ideological lines. It is because we know that
the current lines are making things very difficult in some
regions and bind countries without similarities together in
ways that are causing certain existing regions inordinate
amounts of effort and time in their divisions - and loss of
time on their policy work. <br>
<br>
So I encouraged more flexibility and exceptions -- of the
sort that put Mexico with the ICANN Latin American region
years ago although it is clearly a country in North America.
<br>
<br>
Re: Taiwan, clearly you are an expert, Ed. How can we give
other countries flexibility to more easily self-organize
where it makes sense, but not allow the prejudice you are
pointing out that may come to Taiwan?<br>
Tx,<br>
Kathy<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/13/2016 2:46 PM, Edward Morris
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Ayden,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Here
are the facts:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">1.
Taiwan IS a full member of the GAC under the name
"Chinese Tapei".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">2.
Hong Kong is a member of the GAC under the name "Hong
Kong Special Administrative Region, China"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Both
of these entities are assigned to the Asian Pacific
region.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In
the report that is under consideration the word
"state" is used repeatedly. My fear is if what I
understand you are proposing the NCSG to ask for:
rearranging our geographic locations in part because
of culture, language and other concerns, is approved,
additional regions are created with only "states"
being able to request reassignment as to to the region
of their desire.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Here's
my hypothetical problem: A region called Greater China
is created. Taiwan and Hong Kong are placed within
China Region rather than, say, within a region that
contained South Korea or Japan. The people of Taiwan ,
in this scenario, could very well be placed in a
region they don't want to be in. What if their request
for a change was opposed by Beijing under the claim
Taiwan is not a state? What if Taiwan were placed in a
region away from Beijing and Beijing requested their
reassignment within that region. Your solution:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> my
understanding is that under the proposed new
framework either the GAC or a ministerial-level
official from the People's Republic of China would
need to request that the Republic of China be
treated as a unitary state.</span></em><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">?I repeat:
Taiwan is already a member of the GAC. Have you told
them that? Beijing has absolutely no say in who
represents Taiwan in ICANN. Next month Tsai Ing-wen
takes office as the President of the Republic of
China. There is likely to be a change in Taiwan's
representation within the GAC and, if my contacts are
to be believed, Taiwan's role here will be greatly
upgraded as the individual to be appointed is a former
Ambassador of the RoC (and a personal friend).</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">I
should note that I reject your comparisons to Scotland
and Spain. If you believe that Taiwan is a de facto
part of the Peoples Republic I'd encourage you to try
to enter Taipei with a visa from the PRC. You'll be
escorted to the next flight home. Not true in the
other regions. I also note that 22 nations of this
world recognise the Republic of China as the proper
government for all of China and do not recognise the
Peoples Republic of China, including the Holy See
(which is also a GAC member).</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Let
me further note that Panama recognises Taiwan and not
Beijing as the proper governing unit for China. One of
the sad parts of the cancellation of our Panama
meeting is that a conference I had been working to
present in cooperation with the Embassy of the
Republic of China to Panama entitled "Online free
speech in Asia" will not now take place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I
do agree with you Ayden when you write "</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">it
does not seem to me that ICANN is the right forum to
be holding these debates". Which is why 'state' needs
to be replaced as a term. Or perhaps during a
rescheduled meeting in Panama the Taiwanese government
can claim to have the jurisdiction to ask that China
be placed in the African region. On what basis would
ICANN say no to that? In Panama Taiwan has legal
jurisdiction to represent ALL of China.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">?I
would suggest the term 'state' be replaced by
"national governments and distinct economies that have
been granted membership in the GAC" or that state can
be defined elsewhere in the document as being such.
This is the exact definition used for creating
membership eligibility for the GAC. I'd suggest we
should make this request in our public comment in
order to avoid potential conflict down the road.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Personally,
because of the many complications involved in
changing the regional structures I do not believe this
is something ICANN should do at the current
transitionary time. I will likely be a "no" vote when
the public comment comes before the Policy Committee
for approval. That said, I do believe the word 'state'
creates such danger when applied in this manner I will
be submitting my own personal comment during the open
period on that single matter.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Thanks
again for your hard work on this Ayden.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Kind
Regards,</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Ed
Morris</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">:
"Ayden Férdeline" <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:icann@FERDELINE.COM"><icann@FERDELINE.COM></a><br>
<b>Sent</b>: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 6:31 PM<br>
<b>To</b>: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: AW: [NCSG-Discuss] Geographic
Regions Review Working Group Report - NCSG Response</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%"
border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Hi Ed and
Stephanie,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><br>
Thanks for your inputs here. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">The
question of Taiwan is a difficult one.
Regardless of whether one supports Chinese
reunification or Taiwanese independence, it
does not seem to me that ICANN is the right
forum to be holding these debates. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">I took a
look at APEC to see how they deal with
Taiwan, and some academics have said it is
recognised through a “policy of deliberate
ambiguity.” The Working Group, in its final
report, has recommended that ICANN respect
State sovereignty while also offering the
right to self-determination. Staff have not
drafted guidelines on how this might be
implemented but my understanding is that
under the proposed new framework either the
GAC or a ministerial-level official from the
People's Republic of China would need to
request that the Republic of China be
treated as a unitary state. (Need I even
mention how unlikely that would be?) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">This may
not seem a satisfactory outcome, but I do
think it's the most sensible position for
ICANN to take. We do not want to be in a
position where we are deciding whether
Barcelona is a part of Spain or Catalonia,
whether Scotland is a part of the UK or an
independent nation, whether Las
Malvinas/Falkland Islands are British or
Argentine. I would feel more comfortable
deferring to an external body to make the
determination as to what is or is not a
State. I am not sure which third party we
should be turning to here, but I am certain
that a Californian non-profit shouldn't be
involved in questions of national
sovereignty or self-determination.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">On an
unrelated note I was reading the ICANN EMEA
newsletter a few moments ago and saw we have
a Vice President for the Middle East. Not
sure how that works given ICANN's current
geographic regions framework recognises the
existence of just five regions...?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><br>
Thanks again, Ed and Stephanie, for your
comments. If there is disagreement with my
views here - and indeed we would like to
define what is or is not a state - please do
write back and we can discuss further.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Best
wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Ayden<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f">
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<o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t" />
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<v:imagedata src="mailbox:///C:/Users/Klaus/AppData/Roaming/Thunderbird/Profiles/dqxgy47t.default/Mail/pop.gmail.com/Inbox?number=32617119&header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image003.jpg" o:title="~WRD000" />
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</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img
src="cid:part11.00030604.03060901@gmail.com"
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height="202" width="202"><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On
Wed, Apr 13, 2016 2:29 PM, Stephanie Perrin <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@MAIL.UTORONTO.CA"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@MAIL.UTORONTO.CA">stephanie.perrin@MAIL.UTORONTO.CA</a></a>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Perhaps
a note about how APEC deals with this might
be helpful? Dangerous turf....<br>
cheers stephanie<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On
2016-04-13 8:00, Edward Morris wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi
Ayden.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thank
you very much for your hard work on
this. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Is
there some place in the document we can
either clarify, define, add to or modify
the word 'state'.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Quick
example: Taiwan is represented in the
GAC. I and 22 countries of the world,
including Panama, for example, consider
Taiwan to be a state. Yet, the United
Nations does not. If we create further
regions based upon culture and Asia is
divided into multiple groups it is
conceivable that Taiwan would
automatically be lumped i with Chins
where the criteria used in assignment
would not normally generate that
outcome. There are other examples of
this, in the Middle East being another.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks
for considering how and where this could
fit ion to our comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Kind
Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Ed
Mporris <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">:
"Ayden Férdeline" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:icann@FERDELINE.COM"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:icann@FERDELINE.COM"><icann@FERDELINE.COM></a></a><br>
<b>Sent</b>: Tuesday, April 12, 2016
6:18 PM<br>
<b>To</b>: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: AW: [NCSG-Discuss]
Geographic Regions Review Working Group
Report - NCSG Response</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:100.0%" border="0"
width="100%" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"
valign="top">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Hello
all,</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Just
a reminder that the deadline
to submit our comments on the
final report of the Geographic
Regions Review Working Group
is fast approaching. If we
agree to submit something (and
I will confess I am not too
sure of process here - do we
want to submit something? Is
this something best discussed
on Thursday's open policy
call?) it would be helpful to
have your feedback in by next
Tuesday. This is because the
deadline for comments is 24
April.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">I
was reading the statement that
was <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://links7.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/HNd3LAYRAqsA2njoA?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI">submitted
by the Registries
Stakeholder Group</a>
yesterday. They began with an
interesting remark which I
would like to quote in full -
I don't think there is value
in us echoing it, but it might
be something we'd like to note
in our response to the Draft
Framework of Principles for
Cross Community Working
Groups, if we respond:</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><i><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">“The
RySG notes that it has been
nearly nine years since the
concerns about the
definition and use of
Geographic Regions were
highlighted by the ccNSO in
2007 and almost three years
since the WGGR produced its
final report in June 2013.
The reason for these
exceptionally long timelines
is unclear but they might be
cause of concern for some
RySG members.” </span></i><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Just
for ease of reference, here is
a link to the statement I have
drafted so far which
incorporates the inputs of
around 20 NCSG members. I am
not precious about the words.
If you would like to change
something, please go ahead and
re-phrase it: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit?usp=sharing"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit?usp=sharing</a></a></span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">I
look forward to hearing your
thoughts.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Best
wishes,</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Ayden
Férdeline</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/lqkayIE4XigvCIbYy?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI"><span
style="background:white">Statement
of Interest</span></a></span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_s1027" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="Image removed by sender." style='position:absolute;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:60pt;height:60pt;z-index:251659264;mso-wrap-distance-left:0;mso-wrap-distance-top:0;mso-wrap-distance-right:0;mso-wrap-distance-bottom:0;mso-position-horizontal:left;mso-position-horizontal-relative:text;mso-position-vertical-relative:line' o:allowoverlap="f" stroked="t" strokeweight="56e-5mm">
<v:imagedata src="mailbox:///C:/Users/Klaus/AppData/Roaming/Thunderbird/Profiles/dqxgy47t.default/Mail/pop.gmail.com/Inbox?number=32617119&header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image003.jpg" o:title="~WRD000" />
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</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img
src="cid:part11.00030604.03060901@gmail.com"
alt="Image removed by sender."
v:shapes="_x0000_s1027"
align="left" height="202"
width="202"><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On
Fri, Apr 8, 2016 10:48 PM, Ayden
Férdeline <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com">icann@ferdeline.com</a></a>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:100.0%" border="0"
width="100%" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 0in
0in 0in" valign="top">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Hi
Glenn, and others,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your
comments. Regarding
the Fellowship, as
you know, ICANN
takes a rather
economically
deterministic view
in assessing
eligibility. In
order to be eligible
for a Fellowship, a
candidate must be a
citizen of a country
classed by the World
Bank as a low,
lower-middle, or
upper-middle
economy. I don't
happen to see
anything wrong with
means testing this
programme. Nor do I
see anything wrong
with deferring to a
recognised
third-party to make
the call as to
whether someone can
afford or not to
participate (it's
hardly within
ICANN's remit to be
doing this). But
still, the
eligibility criteria
is broken.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">The
biggest issue I see
is this: just
because a country is
supposedly
high-income does not
mean the Fellow
comes from such a
background. It does
not mean that a
country invests in
education, nor is
looking to build the
capacity of its
citizenry in
Internet governance
matters. I can only
speak from personal
experience here —
living in the UK,
higher education is
very much another
commodity to be
exported, not
something that the
State sees a
responsibility to
invest in. The other
flaw is in the data
set. We're relying
on data
self-reported by
States to the World
Bank. Some countries
do not report
accurate data and it
is unclear what
repercussions (if
any) there are for
doing so. The
figures that
Argentina, for
instance, reports
are questionable in
accuracy. This is a
country that goes to
the trouble of <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/R7HrwMGbPdKsgJC5z?rn=iUmbpxWZkJXqDbEIuVGZ5FkI&re=i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI">
rigging the
Economist's Big
Mac Index</a> (by
imposing price
controls on Big
Macs); I would put
forward that the
figures they are
reporting to the
World Bank are
intended for
domestic consumption
and not grounded in
reality. The very
real impact here,
however, is that
Argentines are not
eligible for ICANN
Fellowships, because
Argentina has
self-reported itself
to the World Bank as
a high-income
economy. </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">My
preference would be
for the Fellowship
programme to be
extended to those of
all nationalities.
Of course there
should be some way
to recognise and
account for
privilege, but
particularly for
early career
participants and
those without
institutional
backing, it doesn't
matter which country
you come from —
funding to
participate in ICANN
activities is going
to be an issue.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">To
your other comments,
Glenn, I am glad
that Ed has taken
ownership of this
matter and will seek
a response from the
relevant parties. </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Best
wishes,</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Ayden</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_s1028" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='position:absolute;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:.6pt;height:.6pt;z-index:251660288;mso-wrap-distance-left:0;mso-wrap-distance-top:0;mso-wrap-distance-right:0;mso-wrap-distance-bottom:0;mso-position-horizontal:left;mso-position-horizontal-relative:text;mso-position-vertical-relative:line' o:allowoverlap="f">
<v:imagedata src="mailbox:///C:/Users/Klaus/AppData/Roaming/Thunderbird/Profiles/dqxgy47t.default/Mail/pop.gmail.com/Inbox?number=32617119&header=quotebody&part=1.4&filename=image005.gif" o:title="part11.09050504" />
<w:wrap type="square"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img
src="cid:part21.02040806.04080405@gmail.com"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1028" align="left" height="2" width="2"><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Thu,
Apr 7, 2016 6:39 PM,
Glenn McKnight <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:mcknight.glenn@GMAIL.COM"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mcknight.glenn@GMAIL.COM">mcknight.glenn@GMAIL.COM</a></a>
wrote: <o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">We have
been bringing up
'forever' the
issue of First
Nations from North
America and
elsewhere which
are denied access
to the
fellowship. Also
the 15 islands
under NARALO for
the South
Pacific. These
members are deemed
part of the rich
west and not
eligible.
Meanwhile American
Samoa or the Hopi
Reservations make
less many of the
countries ie.
Barbados and
others who are
deemed worthy to
be fellows. I am
speaking with
Loris Taylor of
Native Public
Media and she is
working with the
Tribal elders in
the US to join
GAC since US
tribes which are
treaty countries
are eligible. No
one from ICANN has
responded to
them. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Glenn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Glenn
McKnight<br>
<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com">mcknight.glenn@gmail.com</a></a><br>
skype
gmcknight<br>
twitter
gmcknight<br>
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On Thu,
Apr 7, 2016 at
1:06 PM, Kathy
Kleiman <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a></a>>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
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<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi
Tracy, Ayden
and All,<br>
I came from
the South
School of
Internet
Governance
last week
(organized by
Olga Cavalli)
and learned
that a lot of
time is being
spent arguing
about and
within
regions. And
there is much
work and so
many other
issues to
argue about!<br>
<br>
To Ayden's
questions
below, which
did not make
it to me
earlier, let
me respond: I
think that it
is people who
should
organize their
regions within
ICANN. Israel,
for example,
might object
to being in
the Middle
Eastern
region; as
their citizens
are so often
denied
entrance to
conferences in
nearby
countries,
they normally
go to Europe
and other
areas for
their
meetings. Why
should their
young people
have no chance
at getting a
NextGen
scholarship if
it is only
regional and
they can't
attend
anything in
their regions?
That's just
one example.<br>
<br>
The ones Tracy
points to
below is
another
example - and
solution.<br>
<br>
I dislike
"recreating
the wheel" and
my guess is
that others
have solved
this issue
many times and
in many ways
over the
years. What
has worked?<br>
Ayden, as a
traveler of
the world, I
certainly vote
for you to
help solve
this
interesting
problem!<br>
Best,<br>
Kathy <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
On 4/6/2016
2:56 PM, Tracy
F. Hackshaw @
Google wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">For
these reasons
and more, the
GAC
deliberately
avoids
recognition of
"regions" in
the ICANN
space.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In
terms of the
Americas -
geography
certainly does
not rule even
re: the RIRs
and the
Caribbean is
probably the
best/worst
example:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Consider
this (via the
NRO)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
ARIN Caribbean</span></u></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">US
VIRGIN ISLANDS<br>
BRITISH VIRGIN
ISLANDS<br>
ANGUILLA<br>
ANTIGUA AND
BARBUDA<br>
BAHAMAS<br>
BARBADOS<br>
BERMUDA<br>
CAYMAN ISLANDS<br>
DOMINICA<br>
GRENADA<br>
GUADELOUPE<br>
JAMAICA<br>
MARTINIQUE<br>
PUERTO RICO<br>
SAINT KITTS
AND NEVIS<br>
SAINT LUCIA<br>
SAINT VINCENT
AND THE
GRENADINES<br>
TURKS AND
CAICOS ISLANDS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
LACNIC
Caribbean</span></u></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ARUBA<br>
CUBA<br>
DOMINICAN
REPUBLIC<br>
FRENCH GUIANA<br>
GUYANA<br>
HAITI<br>
NETHERLANDS
ANTILLES<br>
SURINAME<br>
TRINIDAD AND
TOBAGO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
RIPE NCC
Caribbean</span></u></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">MONTSERRAT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">SAINT
MARTIN?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Unclear</span></u></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Caribbean
Netherlands
- Bonaire,
Sint
Eustatius, and
Saba - LACNIC
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Curacao
- LACNIC?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sint
Maarten -
LACNIC?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Saint
Martin - RIPE
NCC?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><u><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Other
idiosyncrasies
(defying
geography):</span></u></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Malawi
- ARIN<br>
Antarctica -
ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(I
could be
missing one or
two island
territories/States)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div
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<div>
<table
class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:100.0%" border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="padding:0in
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valign="top">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Hi
Kathy,</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Thanks
for your
comments. I
just wanted to
pick up on
something; you
mentioned that
(similar,
presumably)
legal
structures
should be one
of our guiding
instruments in
the new
geographic
regions
framework.
What were you
thinking of
here? That in
the GAC, ICANN
should be
measuring how
many members
have common
and civil law
along with,
say, Sharia
law
provisions, in
relation to
the total
number of
countries in
the world with
those legal
systems? How
valuable would
that be? </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">I
am not a
lawyer so my
understanding
of this topic
is very
limited: I
thought every
country's
legal system
had its own
identity -
though some
have
been inherited
from or
influenced by
colonialism,
or another
factor - so
I'm not
certain as to
what we would
be trying to
achieve here.
What type of
diversity
would you like
to see in
terms of legal
structures?</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Many
thanks,</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Ayden</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">
</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">On
Thu, Mar 31,
2016 4:07 PM,
Kathy Kleiman
<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:kathy@KATHYKLEIMAN.COM"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kathy@KATHYKLEIMAN.COM">kathy@KATHYKLEIMAN.COM</a></a> wrote: </span>
<span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">All,
I am not sure
that the
technical
regions need
to be our
guiding point
here. As
Wolfgang
points out,
the technical
regions are a
little skewed.
I would like
language,
culture, legal
structure,
civil society
structures,
and business
structures
should be our
guide here.
Quick note
that Mexico
was “deemed”
part of the
Latin American
region at the
founding of
ICANN for
these reasons.
Tx for the
work and
discussion!
Best, Kathy On
3/31/2016 7:25
AM,
“Kleinwächter,
Wolfgang”
wrote: >
All this can
be understood
only in the
historical
context: Look
at the service
region for
today´s RIPE
NCC(<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/info/list-of-members/europe"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/info/list-of-members/europe">https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/info/list-of-members/europe</a></a>)
which - as the
“European” RIR
- inlcudes
Middle East
and Central
Asien
countries.
When AFRINIC
was formed in
the early
2000s they
took mainly
sub-saharian
countries
which were
served
previously by
ARIN and RIPE
and left some
middle east
countries with
RIPE.
Difficult to
explain . But
the good news
is: It
works.... >
> wolfgang
> >
-----Ursprüngliche
Nachricht-----
> Von:
NCSG-Discuss
im Auftrag von
Shane Kerr
> Gesendet:
Do 31.03.2016
13:06 > An:
<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a></a>
> Betreff:
Re:
[NCSG-Discuss]
Geographic
Regions Review
Working Group
Report - NCSG
Response >
> Seun,
> >
While ARIN
predates
ICANN, when
ICANN was
formed ARIN
was still the
RIR > for
North America,
South America,
and
sub-Saharan
Africa.
Certainly in
> the case
of Jamaica,
since the
official
language is
English it
made a >
certain amount
of sense for
them to have
stayed with
ARIN as an
RIR. > >
The Caribbean
islands all
have unique
backgrounds,
and I suspect
trying > to
group them to
get any kind
of regional
consensus is
always going
to > be
problematic.
:) > >
Cheers, >
> -- >
Shane >
> At
2016-03-29
21:55:41 +0100
> Seun
Ojedeji wrote:
> >>
That
particularly
amazed me
Tracy. There
is an ARIN
meeting that
will be
>>
holding in
Jamaica
sometime in
April. It was
quite
interesting
for me to
>> learn
that based on
ICANN
categorisation,
.jm fall under
the LAC zone
even >>
though it's
within the
ARIN region
(RIR wise).
Don't know how
much this
>>
impacts on the
work of the
NCSG but I
believe it
does for the
At-Large
>>
community.
>>
>>
Considering
that ARIN
predates
ICANN, one
would expect
there is
already
>>
existing data
set to work
with.
Nevertheless,
I guess there
may have been
>> some
other reason
that informed
their decision
which ofcourse
is currently
>> be
out of my
reach/grasps
>>
>>
Regards
>>
>> Sent
from my LG G4
>>
Kindly excuse
brevity and
typos >>
On 29 Mar 2016
9:08 p.m.,
“Tracy F.
Hackshaw”
>>
wrote:
>>
>>>
See ARIN -
LACNIC split
in the
Caribbean
region.
>>>
>>>
Sent from my
Fire
>>>
>>>
>>>
On March 29,
2016, at 3:26
PM, Ayden
Férdeline
>>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
Hi Karel,
>>>
>>>
While that
concern was
raised, my
understanding
is that it was
not carried
>>>
forward into
the
recommendations.
The Working
Group did not
recommend
>>>
moving most of
the Caribbean
region from
the ICANN silo
of Latin
America to
>>>
North America
because it
feared the two
regions would
be split on
>>>
geographical
and linguistic
lines (I would
suggest they
already are.),
>>>
among other
reasons of
“practicality”.
It does,
however, have
provisions in
>>>
place to allow
a country's
government to
voluntarily
request to
move to
>>>
another
region. The
procedures
around how
this would
happen have
not yet
>>>
been developed
by Staff.
>>>
>>> I
welcome any
comments or
suggestions
you might have
for our
statement,
>>>
and I look
forward to
reading your
additions.
>>>
>>>
Best wishes,
>>>
>>>
Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>>
On Tue, Mar
29, 2016 at
7:59 PM, Karel
Douglas
>>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>>
Good work - I
read the NCUC
report which
caused me to
immediately
>>>>
read the final
report of the
WG.
>>>>
>>>>
I'm glad that
the issue of
the Caribbean
region was
discussed as
it is a
>>>>
very topical
issue.
>>>>
>>>>
Carlton
Samuels was on
the WG and
would have
highlighted
the concerns
>>>>
that we have.
>>>>
>>>>
I will
certainly try
to add a few
comments on
your document.
>>>>
>>>>
regards
>>>>
>>>>
Karel
>>>>
>>>>
On Tue, Mar
29, 2016 at
1:26 PM, Ayden
Férdeline
>>>>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
Hello, team-
>>>>>
>>>>>
I have drafted
a response to
the final
report of the
Geographic
Regions
>>>>>
Review Working
Group.
Comments are
due in about
25 days time
but if we do
>>>>>
decide to
reply, I hope
we can submit
something in
advance of
that
>>>>>
deadline. I've
shared my
first draft on
Google Docs
here
>>>>>
>>>>>
and have also
attached it to
this email for
those without
access to that
>>>>>
website.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit">
</a><a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit</a></a>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
You can read
the Working
Group's final
report here:
>>>>>
<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/geo-regions-2015-12-23-en"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/geo-regions-2015-12-23-en">https://www.icann.org/public-comments/geo-regions-2015-12-23-en</a></a>
>>>>>
>>>>>
I suspect that
we will have a
wide birth of
opinions on
this topic, so
>>>>>
please know
that I'm very
much open to
reviewing or
rethinking
anything
>>>>>
that appears
in this early
draft. I am
also new to
writing public
comments
>>>>>
like this one
so welcome any
feedback you
would be kind
enough to
share. I
>>>>>
look forward
to hearing
your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>>
Ayden
Férdeline
>>>>>
>>>>>
[image: File]
>>>>>
>>>>>
Ayden
Ferdeline -
Response -
WGGR
Report.pdf
36KB
>>>>>
Download
>>>>>
>>>>>
[image:
>>>>>
Logo]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
Ayden
Férdeline
>>>
Statement of
Interest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Ayden
Férdeline
>>>
Statement of
Interest
>>>
>>></span><span
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target="_blank"><span style="background:white">Statement of Interest</span></a></span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p
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style="background:white">Statement
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style="background:white">Statement
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