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<div><font>Hello all,</font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>Just a reminder that the deadline to submit our comments on the final report of the Geographic Regions Review Working Group is fast approaching. If we agree to submit something (and I will confess I am not too sure of process here - do we want to submit something? Is this something best discussed on Thursday's open policy call?) it would be helpful to have your feedback in by next Tuesday. This is because the deadline for comments is 24 April.</font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>I was reading the statement that was <a href="https://links7.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/HNd3LAYRAqsA2njoA?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI">submitted by the Registries Stakeholder Group</a> yesterday. They began with an interesting remark which I would like to quote in full - I don't think there is value in us echoing it, but it might be something we'd like to note in our response to the Draft Framework of Principles for Cross Community Working Groups, if we respond:</font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font><i>“The RySG notes that it has been nearly nine years since the concerns about the definition and use of Geographic Regions were highlighted by the ccNSO in 2007 and almost three years since the WGGR produced its final report in June 2013. The reason for these exceptionally long timelines is unclear but they might be cause of concern for some RySG members.” </i></font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>Just for ease of reference, here is a link to the statement I have drafted so far which incorporates the inputs of around 20 NCSG members. I am not precious about the words. If you would like to change something, please go ahead and re-phrase it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit?usp=sharing</font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>I look forward to hearing your thoughts.</font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>Best wishes,</font></div><div><br></div><div class="mixmax_signature"><div>Ayden Férdeline</div><div><a href="https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/lqkayIE4XigvCIbYy?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI" style="background-color: white;">Statement of Interest</a></div></div><img align="left" width="0" height="0" style="border:0; width:0px; height:0px;" src="https://app.mixmax.com/api/track/v2/8E5gwEWphtifdssyJ/i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI/gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI/?sc=false" alt="">
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On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 10:48 PM, Ayden Férdeline <span dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank">icann@ferdeline.com</a></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
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<div><font>Hi Glenn, and others,<br><br>Thanks for your comments. Regarding the Fellowship, as you know, ICANN takes a rather economically deterministic view in assessing eligibility. In order to be eligible for a Fellowship, a candidate must be a citizen of a country classed by the World Bank as a low, lower-middle, or upper-middle economy. I don't happen to see anything wrong with means testing this programme. Nor do I see anything wrong with deferring to a recognised third-party to make the call as to whether someone can afford or not to participate (it's hardly within ICANN's remit to be doing this). But still, the eligibility criteria is broken.</font></div><div><font><br>The biggest issue I see is this: just because a country is supposedly high-income does not mean the Fellow comes from such a background. It does not mean that a country invests in education, nor is looking to build the capacity of its citizenry in Internet governance matters. I can only speak from personal experience here — living in the UK, higher education is very much another commodity to be exported, not something that the State sees a responsibility to invest in. The other flaw is in the data set. We're relying on data self-reported by States to the World Bank. Some countries do not report accurate data and it is unclear what repercussions (if any) there are for doing so. The figures that Argentina, for instance, reports are questionable in accuracy. This is a country that goes to the trouble of <a href="https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/R7HrwMGbPdKsgJC5z?rn=iUmbpxWZkJXqDbEIuVGZ5FkI&re=i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI">rigging the Economist's Big Mac Index</a> (by imposing price controls on Big Macs); I would put forward that the figures they are reporting to the World Bank are intended for domestic consumption and not grounded in reality. The very real impact here, however, is that Argentines are not eligible for ICANN Fellowships, because Argentina has self-reported itself to the World Bank as a high-income economy. </font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>My preference would be for the Fellowship programme to be extended to those of all nationalities. Of course there should be some way to recognise and account for privilege, but particularly for early career participants and those without institutional backing, it doesn't matter which country you come from — funding to participate in ICANN activities is going to be an issue.</font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>To your other comments, Glenn, I am glad that Ed has taken ownership of this matter and will seek a response from the relevant parties. </font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>Best wishes,</font></div><div><font><br></font></div><div><font>Ayden</font></div><img align="left" width="0" height="0" style="border:0; width:0px; height:0px;" src="cid:b205d1cca619ab67" alt="">
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On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 6:39 PM, Glenn McKnight <span dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:mcknight.glenn@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">mcknight.glenn@GMAIL.COM</a></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div dir="ltr">We have been bringing up 'forever' the issue of First Nations from North America and elsewhere which are denied access to the fellowship. Also the 15 islands under NARALO for the South Pacific. These members are deemed part of the rich west and not eligible. Meanwhile American Samoa or the Hopi Reservations make less many of the countries ie. Barbados and others who are deemed worthy to be fellows. I am speaking with Loris Taylor of Native Public Media and she is working with the Tribal elders in the US to join GAC since US tribes which are treaty countries are eligible. No one from ICANN has responded to them. <div><br>Glenn</div></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr">Glenn McKnight<br><a href="mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com" target="_blank">mcknight.glenn@gmail.com</a><br>skype gmcknight<br>twitter gmcknight<br>.</div></div></div>
<br><div>On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Kathy Kleiman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi Tracy, Ayden and All,<br>
I came from the South School of Internet Governance last week
(organized by Olga Cavalli) and learned that a lot of time is being
spent arguing about and within regions. And there is much work and
so many other issues to argue about! <br>
<br>
To Ayden's questions below, which did not make it to me earlier, let
me respond: I think that it is people who should organize their
regions within ICANN. Israel, for example, might object to being in
the Middle Eastern region; as their citizens are so often denied
entrance to conferences in nearby countries, they normally go to
Europe and other areas for their meetings. Why should their young
people have no chance at getting a NextGen scholarship if it is only
regional and they can't attend anything in their regions? That's
just one example. <br>
<br>
The ones Tracy points to below is another example - and solution. <br>
<br>
I dislike "recreating the wheel" and my guess is that others have
solved this issue many times and in many ways over the years. What
has worked? <br>
Ayden, as a traveler of the world, I certainly vote for you to help
solve this interesting problem! <br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<div><div><br>
<div><br>
On 4/6/2016 2:56 PM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">For these reasons and more, the GAC deliberately
avoids recognition of "regions" in the ICANN space.</p>
<p dir="ltr">In terms of the Americas - geography certainly does
not rule even re: the RIRs and the Caribbean is probably the
best/worst example:</p>
<p dir="ltr">Consider this (via the NRO)</p>
<p dir="ltr"><b><u>The ARIN Caribbean</u></b></p>
<p dir="ltr">US VIRGIN ISLANDS<br>
BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS<br>
ANGUILLA<br>
ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA<br>
BAHAMAS<br>
BARBADOS<br>
BERMUDA<br>
CAYMAN ISLANDS<br>
DOMINICA<br>
GRENADA<br>
GUADELOUPE<br>
JAMAICA<br>
MARTINIQUE<br>
PUERTO RICO<br>
SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS<br>
SAINT LUCIA<br>
SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES<br>
TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS</p>
<p dir="ltr"><u><b>The LACNIC Caribbean</b></u></p>
<p dir="ltr">ARUBA<br>
CUBA<br>
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC<br>
FRENCH GUIANA<br>
GUYANA<br>
HAITI<br>
NETHERLANDS ANTILLES<br>
SURINAME<br>
TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO</p>
<p dir="ltr"><b><u>The RIPE NCC Caribbean</u></b></p>
<p dir="ltr">MONTSERRAT</p>
<p dir="ltr">SAINT MARTIN?</p>
<p dir="ltr"><b><u>Unclear</u></b></p>
<p dir="ltr">Caribbean Netherlands - Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and
Saba - LACNIC ?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Curacao - LACNIC?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Sint Maarten - LACNIC?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Saint Martin - RIPE NCC?</p>
<p dir="ltr"><b><u>Other idiosyncrasies (defying geography):</u></b></p>
<p dir="ltr">Malawi - ARIN<br>
Antarctica - ARIN</p>
<p dir="ltr">(I could be missing one or two island
territories/States)</p>
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<div>Hi Kathy,</div>
<div><br>
Thanks for your comments. I just wanted to pick up
on something; you mentioned that (similar,
presumably) legal structures should be one of our
guiding instruments in the new geographic regions
framework. What were you thinking of here? That in
the GAC, ICANN should be measuring how many members
have common and civil law along with, say, Sharia
law provisions, in relation to the total number of
countries in the world with those legal systems? How
valuable would that be? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not a lawyer so my understanding of this
topic is very limited: I thought every country's
legal system had its own identity - though some have
been <font>inherited from or influenced by
colonialism, or another factor - so I'm not
certain as to what we would be trying to achieve
here. What type of diversity would you like to see
in terms of legal structures?</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Many thanks,</div>
<div><br>
Ayden</div>
<div>
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<div><br>
<div> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016
4:07 PM, Kathy Kleiman <span dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:kathy@KATHYKLEIMAN.COM" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:kathy@KATHYKLEIMAN.COM" target="_blank">kathy@KATHYKLEIMAN.COM</a></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> All,
I am not sure that the technical regions need
to be our guiding point here. As Wolfgang
points out, the technical regions are a little
skewed. I would like language, culture, legal
structure, civil society structures, and
business structures should be our guide here.
Quick note that Mexico was “deemed” part of
the Latin American region at the founding of
ICANN for these reasons. Tx for the work and
discussion!
Best,
Kathy
On 3/31/2016 7:25 AM, “Kleinwächter, Wolfgang”
wrote:
> All this can be understood only in the
historical context: Look at the service region
for today´s RIPE NCC(<a href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/info/list-of-members/europe" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/info/list-of-members/europe</a>)
which - as the “European” RIR - inlcudes
Middle East and Central Asien countries. When
AFRINIC was formed in the early 2000s they
took mainly sub-saharian countries which were
served previously by ARIN and RIPE and left
some middle east countries with RIPE.
Difficult to explain . But the good news is:
It works....
>
> wolfgang
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: NCSG-Discuss im Auftrag von Shane
Kerr
> Gesendet: Do 31.03.2016 13:06
> An: <a href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>
> Betreff: Re: [NCSG-Discuss] Geographic
Regions Review Working Group Report - NCSG
Response
> > Seun,
>
> While ARIN predates ICANN, when ICANN was
formed ARIN was still the RIR
> for North America, South America, and
sub-Saharan Africa. Certainly in
> the case of Jamaica, since the official
language is English it made a
> certain amount of sense for them to have
stayed with ARIN as an RIR.
>
> The Caribbean islands all have unique
backgrounds, and I suspect trying
> to group them to get any kind of regional
consensus is always going to
> be problematic. :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Shane
>
> At 2016-03-29 21:55:41 +0100
> Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>
>> That particularly amazed me Tracy.
There is an ARIN meeting that will be
>> holding in Jamaica sometime in April.
It was quite interesting for me to
>> learn that based on ICANN
categorisation, .jm fall under the LAC zone
even
>> though it's within the ARIN region
(RIR wise). Don't know how much this
>> impacts on the work of the NCSG but I
believe it does for the At-Large
>> community.
>>
>> Considering that ARIN predates ICANN,
one would expect there is already
>> existing data set to work with.
Nevertheless, I guess there may have been
>> some other reason that informed their
decision which ofcourse is currently
>> be out of my reach/grasps
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Sent from my LG G4
>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>> On 29 Mar 2016 9:08 p.m., “Tracy F.
Hackshaw” >> wrote:
>>
>>> See ARIN - LACNIC split in the
Caribbean region.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Fire
>>>
>>>
>>> On March 29, 2016, at 3:26 PM,
Ayden Férdeline >>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Karel,
>>>
>>> While that concern was raised, my
understanding is that it was not carried
>>> forward into the recommendations.
The Working Group did not recommend
>>> moving most of the Caribbean
region from the ICANN silo of Latin America to
>>> North America because it feared
the two regions would be split on
>>> geographical and linguistic lines
(I would suggest they already are.),
>>> among other reasons of
“practicality”. It does, however, have
provisions in
>>> place to allow a country's
government to voluntarily request to move to
>>> another region. The procedures
around how this would happen have not yet
>>> been developed by Staff.
>>>
>>> I welcome any comments or
suggestions you might have for our statement,
>>> and I look forward to reading
your additions.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 7:59 PM,
Karel Douglas >>> wrote:
>>> >>>> Good work - I
read the NCUC report which caused me to
immediately
>>>> read the final report of the
WG.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad that the issue of
the Caribbean region was discussed as it is a
>>>> very topical issue.
>>>>
>>>> Carlton Samuels was on the WG
and would have highlighted the concerns
>>>> that we have.
>>>>
>>>> I will certainly try to add a
few comments on your document.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Karel
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 1:26
PM, Ayden Férdeline >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> Hello,
team-
>>>>>
>>>>> I have drafted a response
to the final report of the Geographic Regions
>>>>> Review Working Group.
Comments are due in about 25 days time but if
we do
>>>>> decide to reply, I hope
we can submit something in advance of that
>>>>> deadline. I've shared my
first draft on Google Docs here
>>>>> >>>>> and
have also attached it to this email for those
without access to that
>>>>> website.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit</a>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can read the Working
Group's final report here:
>>>>> <a href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/geo-regions-2015-12-23-en" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/geo-regions-2015-12-23-en" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/public-comments/geo-regions-2015-12-23-en</a>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that we will
have a wide birth of opinions on this topic,
so
>>>>> please know that I'm very
much open to reviewing or rethinking anything
>>>>> that appears in this
early draft. I am also new to writing public
comments
>>>>> like this one so welcome
any feedback you would be kind enough to
share. I
>>>>> look forward to hearing
your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayden Férdeline
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: File]
>>>>> >>>>>
Ayden Ferdeline - Response - WGGR Report.pdf
36KB
>>>>> Download
>>>>>
>>>>> [image:
>>>>> Logo]
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> Ayden Férdeline
>>> Statement of Interest
>>> >>>
>>>
>>> Ayden Férdeline
>>> Statement of Interest
>>> >>> </blockquote>
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<div>Ayden Férdeline</div>
<div><a href="https://links6.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/NFYlE7DXtQCyuTshl?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI" style="background-color:white" target="_blank">Statement
of Interest</a></div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote>
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<br><br><div>Ayden Férdeline</div><div><a href="https://links10.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/RTRLQY6cekZHrPc4d?rn=iUmbpxWZkJXqDbEIuVGZ5FkI&re=i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI" style="background-color: white;">Statement of Interest</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br><br><div>Ayden Férdeline</div><div><a href="https://links7.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/iCqYkhyENkmiusddu?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI" style="background-color: white;">Statement of Interest</a></div>
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