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    Sorry for the off-list exchange by mistake.<br>
    <br>
    Nicolas<br>
    <div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
      <br>
      -------- Original Message --------
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            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
            </th>
            <td>Re: [NCSG-Discuss] GAC proposal to ban top level domains
              that use a geographic word unless permission granted from
              govt (next rounds of gtlds)</td>
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            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
            <td>Mon, 6 Oct 2014 16:42:55 +0100</td>
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            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
            <td>Seun Ojedeji <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com"><seun.ojedeji@gmail.com></a></td>
          </tr>
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            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
            <td>Nicolas Adam <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nickolas.adam@gmail.com"><nickolas.adam@gmail.com></a></td>
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          <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 4:29 PM,
            Nicolas Adam <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:nickolas.adam@gmail.com" target="_blank">nickolas.adam@gmail.com</a>></span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class=""> <br>
                  <div>On 06/10/2014 10:59 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br>
                  </div>
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                        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at
                          3:39 PM, Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
                              target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span>
                          wrote:<br>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                            #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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                              vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-US">
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                                <p class="MsoNormal"><font
                                    color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1f497d">The problem is
                                      that governments are supposed to
                                      act via passage of laws and
                                      treaties. But governments cannot
                                      agree on the issues surrounding
                                      geographical indicators and hence
                                      there is no applicable law at the
                                      global level. Where there is no
                                      law, there should be no global
                                      constraints on what ICANN or the
                                      users do. A claim of
                                      “sensitivity,” an inherently
                                      subjective term, must not be
                                      transmuted into global regulations
                                      just because ICANN can get away
                                      with it. If governments want
                                      globally applicable constraints on
                                      those kinds of names, let them
                                      pass and ratify international
                                      treaties. If they can’t, then they
                                      must stop attempting to use ICANN
                                      as a back door regulator. </span></font></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><font
                                    color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1f497d"> </span></font></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div>I think its quite difficult to give a
                            blanket statement like this. One could argue
                            what global law restricted .us or .ng for
                            instance to ccTLD. I think the fact that
                            ccTLD (govt) can exercise their sovereignty
                            at national level should make it extended to
                            lower level. I won't see a reason why lagos
                            govt should not have right over .lagos for
                            instance.<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
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                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </span> Well, one obvious problem would be because there
                are multiple Lagos governmental instances!!<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Okay and you think it won't be multiple if a
              non-governmental organisation gets .lagos instead?<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
                I suggest that we are way better serve with a lagos.ng
                and a <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lagos.pt"
                  target="_blank">lagos.pt</a> than by a blanket "right"
                for "gvmntal" jurisdiction to have their unused parked
                name-in-the-gTLD-space.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div>Ofcourse this makes sense especially is no one else
              will be applying and administering .lagos<br>
            </div>
            <div> </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Does that make
                sense? What's wrong with SLDs? They are the natural
                place for Lagoses of this world to end up, are they not?
                Same goes for <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://patagonia.ar" target="_blank">patagonia.ar</a><span
                  class=""><br>
                </span></div>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Yeah i agree but inline with my reservation above<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <div>Cheers! <br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class=""> <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
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                      <div class="gmail_extra">
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <div>I think a balance needs to be struck in a
                            way that govt will not end-up claiming all
                            the possible tld strings[1]<br>
                             <br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Cheers!<br>
                          </div>
                          <div>1. Maybe restricting to states names only
                            (and not town/city names) may be feasible<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                            #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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                              vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-US">
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><font
                                    color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1f497d"></span></font></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><font
                                    color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1f497d">--MM</span></font></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><font
                                    color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1f497d"> </span></font></p>
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                                      0in 0in">
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
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                                        <b><font color="black"
                                            face="Calibri"><span
                                              style="font-size:11.0pt;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
                                          color="black"><span
                                            style="color:windowtext">
                                            NCSG-Discuss [mailto:<a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"
                                              target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]
                                            <b><span
                                                style="font-weight:bold">On

                                                Behalf Of </span></b>Sam
                                            Lanfranco<br>
                                            <b><span
                                                style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                                            Friday, October 3, 2014 7:24
                                            PM<br>
                                            <b><span
                                                style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
                                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"
                                              target="_blank">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
                                            <b><span
                                                style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                                            Re: [NCSG-Discuss] GAC
                                            proposal to ban top level
                                            domains that use a
                                            geographic word unless
                                            permission granted from govt
                                            (next rounds of gtlds)</span></font></p>
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                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><font
                                          color="black" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%"> </span></font></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
                                        <font color="black"
                                          face="Calibri"><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt">This
                                            may be where I stick my foot
                                            in my mouth but I would like
                                            to suggest a middle ground
                                            here. I see little gain from
                                            simply opposing any GAC
                                            authority where geographic
                                            and similar gTLD names
                                            confront national geographic
                                            sensitivities. The issue
                                            would not go away and there
                                            would be the prospects of
                                            either ICANN simply saying
                                            “yes” to government
                                            requests, or an endless
                                            series of one-gTLD-at-a-time
                                            trench fights involving
                                            ICANN, constituencies, and
                                            individual national
                                            governments, trench fights
                                            with the potential for
                                            considerable collateral
                                            damage all around.  <br>
                                            <br>
                                            It of course makes sense to
                                            support a recommended
                                            consultation process between
                                            potential applicants and
                                            national authorities. There
                                            also may be merit to having
                                            individual governments
                                            convey their recommendations
                                            through GAC, and not have
                                            individual governments make
                                            recommendations directly to
                                            ICANN. In the case of
                                            government approval GAC
                                            would simply convey approval
                                            to ICANN.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            In the case where government
                                            objects there may be some
                                            merit in GAC having a short
                                            time frame review of the
                                            case, one that allows for
                                            submissions by other
                                            stakeholders. If the GAC
                                            review does not change the
                                            individual government’s
                                            position, GAC conveys
                                            non-approval to ICANN. <br>
                                            <br>
                                            This process would have
                                            several merits. It
                                            recognizes the legitimacy of
                                            national interests in
                                            geographic related gTLDs, in
                                            contested gTLDs it allows
                                            for a second consultation
                                            within GAC, and it channels
                                            government relations through
                                            GAC to ICANN. As well, it
                                            starts to generate a body of
                                            case law like decisions that
                                            begin to set the boundaries
                                            on where national geographic
                                            sensitivities come into
                                            play, and that evolves from
                                            within GAC, and not from
                                            within ICANN, which should
                                            not be making decisions in
                                            this area.   <br>
                                            <br>
                                            As for worries that this
                                            area of geographic
                                            sensitivities would be used
                                            against freedom of
                                            expression or to curb the
                                            activities of civil society,
                                            while I always worry about
                                            governmental interference in
                                            the human rights of people
                                            and peoples, I do not see
                                            this issue as a particular
                                            threat in that area.  <br>
                                          </span></font><font
                                          face="Times New Roman"
                                          size="3"><span><br>
                                            Sam L.</span></font></p>
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                          </blockquote>
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                        <br>
                        <br clear="all">
                        <br>
                        -- <br>
                        <div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                          <font color="#888888">
                            <blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
                              <i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun
                                  Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
                                </span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal

                                  University Oye-Ekiti<br
                                    style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
                                </span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: 
                                      </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng"
                                  target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
                                <span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span
                                  style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span
                                  style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br>
                              </i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt
                                  email:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="http://goog_1872880453"
                                    target="_blank"> </a><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng"
                                    target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
                              <br>
                              <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The
                                key to understanding is humility - my
                                view !<br>
                              </blockquote>
                            </blockquote>
                          </font><br>
                        </div>
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                  <br>
                </span></div>
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          </div>
          <br>
          <br clear="all">
          <br>
          -- <br>
          <div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
            <font color="#888888">
              <blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
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                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
                <i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br
                      style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
                  </span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal
                    University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
                  </span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web:      </span><a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
                  <span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span
                    style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span
                    style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br>
                </i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng"
                      target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
                <br>
                <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                  0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to
                  understanding is humility - my view !<br>
                </blockquote>
              </blockquote>
            </font><br>
          </div>
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