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<font color="#006600">Hopefully my indented responses to Bill's
indented ones does not confuse the message too much. I've added
some color code to keep it happy, even if it might be contrarian!<br>
<br>
Nicolas<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/07/2014 12:37 PM, William Drake
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B9785A21-6DB9-43DE-8753-6428C7C03A93@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
Hi Milton
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 15, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana;
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lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Let me address
the “buy-in” comment that has been made by both Bill
and Adam.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Both are
arguing that acceding to GAC’s wishes may make them
more supportive of the final outcome.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
More that it reduces their ability to be unsupportive of the
outcome on the grounds that they were not fully able to
participate and make their views known and discharge their
responsibilities etc.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<font color="#006600">Reasons and talking points for being
unsupportive of outcomes are potentially legions, and I would
submit that there is no way, up front, to effectively
circumscribe/constrain these by a clever all-encompassing
preempting/defusing move. I submit that nothing such will be
gained.</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B9785A21-6DB9-43DE-8753-6428C7C03A93@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
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lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This seems
like a reasonable point, and may even be correct –
though we won’t really know until it is all over. I
will note that the 5 designated by GAC are not the 5
eyes but include Egypt and Iran. That may indeed
provide some support for the outcome</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
This to me would be all the more reason to have them in.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#006600"><br>
I will leave the appreciation of the impact of the added players
to Milton, but indeed it could be that the addition has negligible
negative impact and thus even negligible potential gains (that, I
submit, is a given) offset the risk.</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B9785A21-6DB9-43DE-8753-6428C7C03A93@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"
lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There are
other reasons, however, not to accede to the GAC on
this point. Those reasons are:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><span>1.<span style="font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal;
font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It reinforces
the GAC’s sense that governments are exceptional and
privileged stakeholders, which has bad long term
consequences and may affect the CG’s solution set</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
A priori, being 5 out of @ 30 sounds like neither to me, but
presumably the ground rules could be established to keep
things clear.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#006600"><br>
I agree that letting the 5 fly would require clarifying things.</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B9785A21-6DB9-43DE-8753-6428C7C03A93@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"
lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><span>2.<span style="font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal;
font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Efforts to
give GAC what they want in the TLD policy process
has made things worse, not better</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Depends what we’re talking about, and anyway they’re hardly
alone in that :-)</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"
lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><span>3.<span style="font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal;
font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Making their
representation on the committee region-based and
“representative” rather than primarily a liaison
role could actually encourage differences and
fragmentation among the GAC</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Have they said this is how they’d see the role?</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"
lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><span>4.<span style="font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal;
font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It seems to
encourage a view of the coordination group (CG) as a
decisional body. (get used to this new acronym, CG)</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
This too could be clarified up front, no?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#006600"><br>
It most definitely should (whether or not we intend on letting it
fly as far as we are concerned), and what they will say will most
likely overflow onto the scope question anyhow.</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B9785A21-6DB9-43DE-8753-6428C7C03A93@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"
lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Perhaps that
can provide the basis for further discussion. From
what I’ve seen so far, there is no basis for me to
go into this meeting either adamantly opposing or
actively supporting additional seats for GAC. If you
want me to be less wishy-washy, try to move to a
consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div style="border-style: none none none solid;
border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt;
padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NCSG-Discuss
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;">mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Adam
Peake<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
July 12, 2014 4:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;">NCSG-DISCUSS@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[NCSG-Discuss] IANA transition coordination
group: some requests for feedback<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Five. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Multistakeholder:
five from 20 plus. Obvious, no?<o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">And
if that doesn't make sense, then it's
also politically expedient, two not workable for
govt. We want this process to work give them what
they ask. (Less than 20%, so really doesn't
matter.) <o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Adam<o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br>
<br>
On Sunday, July 13, 2014, Amr Elsadr <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org" style="color:
purple; text-decoration: underline;">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi
Dan, Milton and all,<br>
<br>
On Jul 12, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Dan Krimm <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dan@MUSICUNBOUND.COM" style="color:
purple; text-decoration: underline;">dan@MUSICUNBOUND.COM</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
[SNIP]<br>
<br>
> If GAC is really trying to gain
proportionally greater influence on the CG,<br>
> then I think that should be forcefully
resisted.<br>
<br>
+1.<br>
<br>
> If GAC just wants to have accurate
expression of its varied views (and thinks that
requires all<br>
> "viewers" being explicitly present), then
that should be extended equally<br>
> to other SGs at the same time. All or
nothing.<br>
<br>
As per my understanding, GAC communiques are
drafted using consensus amongst their members (in
the absence of any formal objection). In the case
of an inability to reach the required level of
decision-making, the GAC Chair is required to
convey the full range of views expressed by the
membership. It has always been their modus
operandi to use this decision making mechanism. I
don’t understand why it is suddenly becoming an
issue with this coordination group, unless of
course, it is an attempt to (as Milton puts it)
make the group into a voting body rather than a
representative one liaising with its own AC within
the ICANN community. This kind of representation
doesn’t apply to a collective of the four SGs
within the GNSO, so I would (IMHO) avoid
conflating the two issues. Four (or more)
representatives from the GNSO shouldn’t equate to
more reps from the GAC.<br>
<br>
One representative should be enough to liaise with
the GAC. A second one serves as backup, which may
very well be needed. Five (one for each world
region) sounds a bit over-the-top to me.<br>
<br>
For more on GAC operating procedures in this
context, please check Principle 47 and the
footnote at the bottom of the page found here:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://gacweb.icann.org/display/gacweb/GAC+Operating+Principles"
target="_blank" style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;">https://gacweb.icann.org/display/gacweb/GAC+Operating+Principles</a><br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Amr</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
***********************************************<br>
William J. Drake<br>
International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, <br>
ICANN, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ncuc.org">www.ncuc.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> (direct), <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com">wjdrake@gmail.com</a>
(lists),<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.williamdrake.org">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
***********************************************
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
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