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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">It has larger impact, but it's the US
      government that's doing the deed.  The USG is what needs feedback.<br>
      <br>
      It's not an ICANN issue.  We deal with DNS name policy and
      assignments of various numbers.  How some holders use them is not
      our concern, except when the use impacts the stability or security
      of the internet.  This does not.  It's a government and it's
      agents and courts applying laws to its corporations and people. 
      They are not (at least under what we know of this program)
      launching denial of service attacks, attacking the network
      infrastructure, or interfering with the completion of connections
      to the intended host(s).<br>
      <br>
      That doesn't mean I approve.  But the right forum is not ICANN. 
      It may be the UN, communicating with congress, the ACLU and
      international human rights/privacy rights groups.<br>
      <br>
      That many members share concerns about this issue doesn't make it
      an ICANN issue.  Any more than the the fact that a U.S. school
      board's  members' concern about factory conditions in, say,
      bangalore means that the school board is empowered to act on
      them.  They might as individuals choose to join or form another
      group for that.  But the board has a charter and members are
      appointed/elected for a purpose.<br>
      <br>
      Likewise, our charter is not to right or take positions on all the
      wrongs of the world.  Just those of ICANN - which is mission
      enough!  <br>
      <br>
      If we dilute that, we will lose effectiveness for our core
      mission.  If we try to force ICANN into a larger role, the
      unintended consequences will make us very, very sorry.<br>
      <br>
      I'm not saying that the issue is unimportant.  Just that this is
      not the forum for it.<br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Timothe Litt
ACM Distinguished Engineer
--------------------------
This communication may not represent the ACM or my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed. 
</pre>
      On 08-Jun-13 20:38, TXVB wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CANrQg1ujSMrdqesfu6d21qC45O6y-rO7a=YfezGNnYw2RtuysA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <p dir="ltr">Given that US companies are dealing with
        international outage over this ( <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/08/what_about_a_us_tech_boycott/">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/08/what_about_a_us_tech_boycott/</a>)<br>
        Many of the companies involved host servers in the US &
        there is legitimate concern over privacy rights (listed as a
        basic right by the UN) I see this as larger than just a US
        issue.</p>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 8, 2013 7:21 PM, "Timothe Litt"
        <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:litt@acm.org">litt@acm.org</a>>
        wrote:<br type="attribution">
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
            <div>
              <blockquote type="cite">iven the chilling effect the
                revelations of the NSA's conduct may have regarding
                personal liberties on the internet, should we look to
                issue a statement on this type of behavior by
                governments?</blockquote>
              No.  It's not an ICANN issue.  It's purely a US government
              issue.  That some of the data originates on the internet
              is not the core issue.  <br>
              <br>
              If NCUC wants to be effective, we should be careful about
              which battles we take on.  Otherwise we risk being
              marginalized as complainers about everything.  Or we try
              to push ICANN into a governmental role - which it is
              singularly unsuited for.<br>
              <br>
              By all means take it up with civil liberties groups that
              you belong to, and if you're in the US, your
              congress-people.  (Who, by the way, wrote the enabling
              legislation, were all briefed on the programs - and only
              now, when it came to light, are 'shocked, truly shocked'
              by the consequences.  That however, is politics.  Not in
              NCUC's domain.)<br>
              <br>
              <pre cols="72">Timothe Litt
ACM Distinguished Engineer
--------------------------
This communication may not represent the ACM or my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed. 
</pre>
              <pre cols="72">This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed. </pre>
              On 08-Jun-13 20:08, Michael Haffely wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <p dir="ltr">Given the chilling effect the revelations of
                the NSA's conduct may have regarding personal liberties
                on the internet, should we look to issue a statement on
                this type of behavior by governments?</p>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 5, 2013 7:59 AM, "William
                Drake" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>>

                wrote:<br type="attribution">
                <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                  #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hello
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>At the ICANN meeting in Durban, NCUC</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>1.  will do an outreach event in the context of
                      the African School on Internet Governance on the
                      afternoon of Friday 12 July.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>2.  will sponsor a reception/dinner after the
                      school.  This will be organized by the Association
                      for Progressive Communications, and I guess be
                      like the APC parties held at the annual global IGF
                      meetings, maybe @ 50-60 people milling around
                      eating and drinking at a restaurant near the
                      school event.  </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>3.  has applied to organize a workshop on
                      closed generics within the main ICANN program.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>4.  is talking to some government
                      representatives, as well at the ATRT team, about
                      meeting with us on Constituency Day, Tuesday 16th.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>It would help a great deal in deciding how to
                      take these activities forward if I knew who from
                      NCUC will be able to attend in Durban.  In
                      particular, I really need an accurate head count
                      to give the restaurant for the reception/dinner.
                       I would therefore greatly appreciate it if people
                      could be in touch and let me know if they are
                      coming to Durban, and if so on what date and
                      whether they can attend the Friday events.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Thanks much,</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Bill</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                      <div>
                        <div>On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:45 AM, William Drake
                          <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch"
                            target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Further to my previous messages, this
                              is the event at which NCUC will be doing
                              an outreach session & reception.  NCUC
                              members from Africa may wish to consider
                              applying…
                              <div> <br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Best,</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Bill<br>
                                <div><br>
                                  <div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
                                  <br>
                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                    <div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><b>From: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica';font-size:medium">Anriette Esterhuysen
                                        <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"
                                          target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>><br>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><b>Subject: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica';font-size:medium"><b>[governance] African
                                          School on IG: call for
                                          applications</b><br>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><b>Date: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica';font-size:medium">June 3, 2013 11:27:33
                                        AM GMT+02:00<br>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><b>To: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica';font-size:medium">"<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
                                          target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
                                        <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
                                          target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>><br>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <div
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica';font-size:medium"><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
                                          target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>,Anriette

                                        Esterhuysen <<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"
                                          target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>><br>
                                      </span></div>
                                    <br>
                                    <div>Dear all<br>
                                      <br>
                                      I am very pleased to be announcing
                                      the call for applications for the<br>
                                      first African School on Internet
                                      Governance (ASIG) scheduled to
                                      take<br>
                                      place from 10-12 July, immediately
                                      prior to the ICANN meeting in
                                      Durban<br>
                                      South Africa. Thanks to the many
                                      people - including those on on
                                      this<br>
                                      list - who have contributed the
                                      input and support that managed to
                                      get us<br>
                                      to the point of being able to
                                      launch ASIG next month.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Details below and in the attached
                                      PDF. Please distribute widely.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Anriette<br>
                                      <br>
                                      *Call for Applications to
                                      Participate in the First African
                                      School on<br>
                                      Internet Governance in Durban
                                      South Africa, July 2013*<br>
                                      <br>
                                      The Association for Progressive
                                      Communications (APC) and the NEPAD<br>
                                      Planning and Coordinating
                                      Agency–e-Africa Programme are
                                      pleased to<br>
                                      announce the call for applications
                                      for the first African School on<br>
                                      Internet Governance to be held in
                                      Durban, South Africa, from 10-12
                                      July<br>
                                      2013.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Internet Governance (IG) is
                                      usually defined as the development
                                      and<br>
                                      application, by governments, the
                                      private sector, and civil society
                                      of<br>
                                      principles, policies, norms,
                                      rules, decision-making procedures,
                                      and<br>
                                      programmes that shape the
                                      evolution and use of the internet.
                                      While few<br>
                                      contest the definition itself, the
                                      respective roles, responsibility,<br>
                                      power and influence of various
                                      stakeholder groups continue to be
                                      the<br>
                                      subject of intense debate. Also
                                      contested is the institutional
                                      ecosystem<br>
                                      within which decisions that impact
                                      on the internet are being made, as<br>
                                      well as the principles on which
                                      such governance should be based.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      What is not contested is that (a)
                                      IG is complex and and
                                      participating<br>
                                      effectively in IG processes is not
                                      easy, (b) African participation in<br>
                                      IG, be it in technical, social or
                                      political spheres, is insufficient
                                      and<br>
                                      (b) few African countries have
                                      established sustainable open and<br>
                                      inclusive policy discussion forums
                                      where government, civil society,<br>
                                      businesses and technical people
                                      are able to interact effectively
                                      and<br>
                                      collaborate to develop consistent
                                      national and institutional
                                      strategies<br>
                                      aimed at mobilising the internet
                                      for economic, social, political
                                      and<br>
                                      cultural development.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      The first Summer School on IG <<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="http://www.euro-ssig.eu/"
                                        target="_blank">http://www.euro-ssig.eu/</a>>

                                      (SSIG) was held<br>
                                      in Europe in Meissen in July 2007.
                                      It has become an annual event and
                                      has<br>
                                      given rise to the South School on
                                      IG<br>
                                      <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="http://www.gobernanzainternet.org/"
                                        target="_blank">http://www.gobernanzainternet.org/</a>>

                                      held annually in Latin America for<br>
                                      the last four years and an Asia
                                      Pacific school that took place in
                                      2011.<br>
                                      The African School on IG will
                                      build on their experience but
                                      customise<br>
                                      session content to meet the needs
                                      of African IG interest groups. We
                                      will<br>
                                      utilise the expertise that exists
                                      within the continent as well as
                                      that<br>
                                      of international academics and
                                      practitioners in the field. Topics
                                      to be<br>
                                      covered include:<br>
                                      <br>
                                       *<br>
                                      <br>
                                         History and overview of IG<br>
                                      <br>
                                       *<br>
                                      <br>
                                         Policy, development and human
                                      rights<br>
                                      <br>
                                       *<br>
                                      <br>
                                         Regulation and management:
                                      standards, protocols, gTLDs,
                                      ccTLDs,<br>
                                         internet intermediaries<br>
                                      <br>
                                       *<br>
                                      <br>
                                         Multi-stakeholder approaches to
                                      IG: roles and processes,
                                      challenges<br>
                                         and opportunities<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      APC/NPCA can support two groups of
                                      successful applicants:<br>
                                      <br>
                                       *<br>
                                      <br>
                                         Those who are already planning
                                      to come to ICANN47<br>
                                         <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="http://meetings.icann.org/ICANN47"
                                        target="_blank">http://meetings.icann.org/ICANN47</a>>

                                      but who would need to arrive<br>
                                         earlier to attend the School
                                      (accommodation and meals)<br>
                                      <br>
                                       *<br>
                                      <br>
                                         Those who are not currently
                                      planning to come to ICANN47 but
                                      who want<br>
                                         to participate in the school
                                      (travel, visas and meals and<br>
                                         accommodation for the duration
                                      of the School)<br>
                                      <br>
                                      The organisers of the School are
                                      not able to support accommodation
                                      and<br>
                                      other costs for particpation in
                                      ICANN47, only for participation in
                                      the<br>
                                      African School on IG.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      To apply please fill in the form
                                      at *<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="http://tw.gs/Q7uehW*by"
                                        target="_blank">http://tw.gs/Q7uehW*by</a>
                                      *12 June<br>
                                      2013*. For more information
                                      contact *<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:emilar@apc.org"
                                        target="_blank">emilar@apc.org</a>*<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      -- <br>
------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                      anriette esterhuysen <a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"
                                        target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a><br>
                                      executive director, association
                                      for progressive communications<br>
                                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="http://www.apc.org/"
                                        target="_blank">www.apc.org</a><br>
                                      po box 29755, melville 2109<br>
                                      south africa<br>
                                      tel/fax <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692" value="+27117261692" target="_blank">+27

                                        11 726 1692</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <span><Call for Applications
                            AfriIG_31052013.pdf></span>
                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                            <div>
                              <blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________________________<br>
                                You received this message as a
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                                  target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
                                To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
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                            </div>
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                            <div>
**********************************************************<br>
                              William J. Drake<br>
                              International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
                                Media Change & Innovation Division,
                              IPMZ<br>
                                University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
                              Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, <br>
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                      <div>
**********************************************************<br>
                        William J. Drake<br>
                        International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
                          Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
                          University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
                        Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, <br>
                          ICANN, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.ncuc.org" target="_blank">www.ncuc.org</a><br>
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                          target="_blank">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
***********************************************************<br>
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              <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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            target="_blank">http://lists.ncuc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ncuc-discuss</a><br>
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